# I absolutely hate dealing with insurance companies



## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

If yo uhaven't heard me say it before, here I will say it again. It's an sbsolute waste of time. I just got off the phone with an adjuster and needed to vent. 
These insurance people are arrogant pieces of shit. It is not worth my time providing all this additional documentation they are requesting. This is the problem when you hire out of state adjusters and are dealing with out of state office adjusters who don't understand local code. I told them what code books we use and they want me to scour through to find the exact pages. What they are offering for gutters does not even cover the cost of materials for the gutters. 

I will be writing a note to the customer that says any further negotiation of documentation or conversation with or about the insurance claim will be done on an hourly basis. I'm not getting paid for this. 

YOu call can keep these insurance jobs. I have absolutely no interest in getting my blood pressure up. It's not worth the money, no matter how much it is, it's not worth it at all.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

Why bother with codes? Just re-tell them it costs $$$ to do 'this' and that's all there is to it. I don't let them work me up. Just pass the new higher deductible info on to the client.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

I'm just not going to talk to these new inbreeds anymore. 

Remember that thread a few months back about copper inset gutter. What they are offering for the gutter basically covers the materials and they have the nrve to tell me I was too high! That's what set me off!


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

I remember. I just keep telling them it's going to cost $$$ and that's what it's going to cost them. As a rule, they finally pony up, or just fade away and get somebody cheap and I get the repair work later.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

They try to dicker Grumpy. I just tell them "There's nothing I can do, that it is what it is.", and shrug.


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## vtroofing (Sep 27, 2009)

Without making any sort of attempt to change your mind on the Insurance thing... maybe in metro areas and continuous storm damage areas saturated with Contractors (Good, bad, cheaply priced, fairly priced as well as high priced) there should be a medium and for the greater good *Contractors like you* should stay in the game or the price will stay low in in the big picture not better for anybody except the Insurance Companies. Not the Homeowner, not the Contractor the Insurance Company.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

I look at them as any other client " Heres my price,Thankyou" they'll either hire me or not...end of story..:thumbup:


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

vtroofing said:


> *Contractors like you* should stay in the game or the price will stay low .


 I should suffer and plow through and trail blaze so others can prosper on my hard work and under cut? I get what youa re saying, but in all fairness that situation just doesn't seem fair to me. But then again I should stop being a baby, life aint fair. 

I just wish I could do the gunsmithing full time. That's be sweet. 


Yep Interloc, except it usually isn't that easy once insurance gets involved.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

Maybe your proposals are just too detailed Grumpy?

Sum total of one of my proposals to the Ins. Co.
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To replace all the 6”K copper gutters on front of house, and a 23’ section on rear of garage damaged by ice and snow sliding down the roof with new 6“K copper gutters. No downspout damage noted. Downspouts not included. Gutter joints will be properly sweated, and gutters will be attached with hidden brackets instead of spikes and ferrules. TOTAL COST---$3,510.00
The rear gutters are torn loose and 2 miters have started leaking. They cannot be pieced together without leaking, so I’ve enclosed a proposal top replace the rear gutters at the same time, which runs all the way around the screen porch as a single piece with 4 miters. A few slates on the bottom edge are also broken and will cost $25. Per slate for any slate repairs. For rear gutter----Cost--$2,950.00

On this one, they paid for a reinspection after a phone call becasue the Ins. Co. only allowed $750 for repairs. When I remarked in front of the client that was one heck of a deductible increase, they said to just send the final bill when completed. I think slate repairs increased it another $700. +-
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Another:

To replace or bib any slates that can cause leaks. If a slate needs to be pulled and then re-installed, the charge is still the same. Copper nails will be used throughout. $250.00 for the first slate, $25.00 per slate thereafter. Bibs are $10.00 each when used in lieu of a slate replacement. (The $250 fee is waived if repairs are made in conjunction with other ongoing projects on the house.)

To replace approximately 20 slate on the rear corner of the house where a tree limb fell on the roof, and at least another broken one near the soil pipes. At least 2 broken slates were noted on the front of the house.
Approximate total $875.00 to $950. There is no way to see if additional slate are broken under the tree limb, nor to know at this time if the arborists will crack any more. The total cost could increase by $100. To even $300.00 if an additional 12 slate are found broken.


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When they call and say they want to meet me or to reinspect, I tell them they have to pay again for the re-meet.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

PS: this is the boiler plate line at the top of all my slate and steep roof proposals. It includes anchor points too.

To replace or bib any slates that can cause leaks. If a slate needs to be pulled and then re-installed, the charge is still the same. Copper nails will be used throughout. $250.00 for the first slate, $25.00 per slate thereafter. Bibs are $10.00 each when used in lieu of a slate replacement. (The $250 fee is waived if repairs are made in conjunction with other ongoing projects on the house.) When required, harness anchor points are $200.00 per anchor.

The average lines after that only go: 
" About 30-35 slate are known to be broken, Assume 50-60 will be replaced. Approx. Cost ---$$1,850.-$2,100.
Supplement costs will be added to the final invoice if more are replaced or bibbed."


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

Grumpy said:


> I just wish I could do the gunsmithing full time. That's be sweet.


Oh yeah! Me too. I've forgotten what it's like to play at my bench.


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## vtroofing (Sep 27, 2009)

I don't think you get it. Secure the job, sell the HO on yourself and what YOU are going to do for them. YOUR JOB is to make sure the Insurance Covers all the details and YOU become the Hero rightfully so... It's a Grumpy & Goliath.


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## larryb (Jul 22, 2010)

When you know how to do it right it's the best paying work out there!


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## Billy Luttrell (May 3, 2010)

larryb said:


> When you know how to do it right it's the best paying work out there!


Please share your wisdom then, because according to my books...I clear quite a good bit more off of 1 100sq commercial re-roof than I do off of 4 25sq residential shingle re-roofs in the same time frame.


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## chb70 (Jan 19, 2009)

> Please share your wisdom then, because according to my books...I clear quite a good bit more off of 1 100sq commercial re-roof than I do off of 4 25sq residential shingle re-roofs in the same time frame.


I bought Larry's program for 350.00 and was a very good investment if you want to learn more about how to deal with insurance companys I would recommend taking a look at his website or give him a call. I have only had the chance to use Larrys program on a couple of jobs but I negotiated a 10,000 job to 13,800 and a 22,000 to 32,000 I will focus more on this type of work than I ever have in the past.


Complete Roof


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## Aaron (Sep 26, 2011)

I hear you, man. I once had an adjuster start a conversation with profanity, and then tell me to hold ... he put the phone down and talked loudly to a co-worker until I finally hung up. A classy, professional dude ... and a credit to his trade and employer. 

I started in construction in interiors and once met an adjuster so cheap he asked us to install in his home the 10-year-old carpet that was removed from a loss ... for less than his company would pay for the same work. We declined.

It's a job that attracts some very interesting individuals, isn't it?



www.american-roofing.biz


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

*We propose to install new Presidential shingle roofing and inset copper gutter on the house…*​1. Protect the house & landscape with Tarps and plywood then tear off the existing roof to the wood substrate (decking) and we will haul all debris away to a state of IL licensed recycling facility. Note: it is presumed the roofing is 2 layers, if additional layers are present it will cost an additional $864 per layer of asphalt shingle. 
2. Remove any old roofing nails, refasten any loose wood and replace any rotten or damaged wood as necessary to properly install new roofing. Replaced wood will cost additional. ($55 for one sheet of 1/2” CDX plywood or $5.50 per linear foot of 1”X8” board)
3. Install *6’* of Ice & Water shield at the gutter lines then cover all other exposed areas of the roof with asphalt saturated felt.
4. Install CertainTeed Presidential style asphalt shingles with fiberglass reinforcement nailed with a minimum of 5 nails per shingle, including starter shingles at roof edges and cap shingles at hips and ridges. These shingles have a *Lifetime Manufacturer’s warranty*. 
Color: _______________________
5. Install torch applied modified bitumen roof system with ½” cover board at the flat roof areas including the 2 dormers and rear 2nd floor flat roof. All perimeters of the flat roof areas will receive 16 oz copper perimeter flashing (drip edge) and be secured to the one chimney with termination bar.
6. All flashings will be replaced (as possible) using lead around plumbing pipes and 16 oz. copper at all other areas including around the chimneys. Where flashings meet masonry walls, the flashing will tuck into the mortar joints and be sealed with high quality caulk.
7. Fabricate and install new custom inset/inlaid gutter and cap flashing at the 1st floor front porch and 2nd floor main roof. Gutter cap flashing will be fabricated using 16 oz. copper, in 10’ sections with soldered seams.
8. Install 4” smooth round 16 oz. copper downspouts in 4 locations where removed. Downspouts with no horizontal seams from overhang to ground/drain pipe. This excludes front porch.
9. Install new color-coordinated mushroom/breather vents on the roof and replace 2 attic exhaust fans with new 1100 CFM medium duty fans (no electric).
10. Install pre-primed Douglas Fir T1-11 siding at the dormer walls with cedar trim boards on the dormers. 
11. Clean the work area of all job related debris by sweeping, raking and using a magnet to pick up any stray nails and clean gutters of all debris.​12. This installation carries the *Reliable American Guarantee* to remain intact and water tight for at least *10-years*. ​*Total Price before options:*
*Three Six Thousand Four Hundred Forty Five Dollars …………………...….……...……$36,445.00*


*We propose to install new shingle roofing and K style copper gutter on the garage…*​1. Protect the garage & landscape with Tarps and plywood then tear off the existing roof to the wood substrate (decking) and we will haul all debris away to a state of IL licensed recycling facility. 
2. Remove any old roofing nails, refasten any loose wood and replace any rotten or damaged wood as necessary to properly install new roofing. Replaced wood will cost additional. ($55 for one sheet of 1/2” CDX plywood or $5.50 per linear foot of 1”X8” board)
3. Cover all exposed areas of the roof with asphalt saturated felt.
4. Install CertainTeed Presidential style asphalt shingles with fiberglass reinforcement nailed with a minimum of 5 nails per shingle, including starter shingles at roof edges and cap shingles at hips and ridges. These shingles have a *Lifetime Manufacturer’s warranty*. 
Color: _______________________
5. Install new 16 oz. copper K style gutter on the garage with 2 3x4 copper downspouts. 
6. Install 1 new color-coordinated mushroom/breather vents on the back/West of the roof. Per the request of the Purchaser, a 2nd vent will not be installed. 
7. Clean the work area of all job related debris by sweeping, raking and using a magnet to pick up any stray nails and clean gutters of all debris.​8. This installation carries the *Reliable American Guarantee* to remain intact and water tight for at least *10-years*. ​*Total Price before options:*
*Five Thousand Eight Hundred Ninety Five Dollars ……….……………...….….…………$5,895.00*

*Note: If gutters and downspouts are not installed on the garage there will be a savings of $1,550.00. Please advise at the start of the job.*

*TERMS OF PAYMENT: *
1. A down payment equal to 33% of the value of this proposal is due at acceptance of this proposal.
2. Final Payment is due upon substantial completion of the work.
3. All necessary permits will be provided by Reliable American. Dumper permit fee is already included.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Maybe Larry, but "knowing how" and having the desire to argue with inbreeds... I don't want to know how. 

Insurance work brings out the bad in people, customer and contractor. Even the guys I know doing insurance work, using exactimate and the other numerous programs on the net, none are charging or getting as much as I charge... and I think I am too cheap anyways, and I am not the most expensive. 

So I need to do triple the paper work, to make less money at the end of the job? When you say it is the best paying work, that is a blanket statement that is completely without foundation unless you know what I myself am charging.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

tinner666 said:


> Oh yeah! Me too. I've forgotten what it's like to play at my bench.


 I've been getting more and more of the gunsmithing work, but locally only. I have had to turn down some out of state stuff because I do not have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) and won't be able to get a FFL unless I get a commercial location because of stupid zoning laws. 

I've got some historic pieces on my bench right now waiting for parts, and one customer who wants me to convert his pump hunting shot gun into a tactical home defense shot gun, also waiting on parts.


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## larryb (Jul 22, 2010)

Grumpy said:


> Maybe Larry, but "knowing how" and having the desire to argue with inbreeds... I don't want to know how.
> 
> Insurance work brings out the bad in people, customer and contractor. Even the guys I know doing insurance work, using exactimate and the other numerous programs on the net, none are charging or getting as much as I charge... and I think I am too cheap anyways, and I am not the most expensive.
> 
> So I need to do triple the paper work, to make less money at the end of the job? When you say it is the best paying work, that is a blanket statement that is completely without foundation unless you know what I myself am charging.


Insurance work usually only brings out the "bad" in contractors or customers or insurance adjusters, who are already bad, or at least, reckless and lacking in ability and common sense. When I was doing retail and ins work, my retail prices were usually higher than anyone else and I usually got the jobs based on competence, experience, quality of workmanship and selling/closing skills. Over the years, I've come across just as many "bad" contractors as good ones, whether they do retail or ins work. 

With ins work, I always kept paperwork to a minimum (never used or needed Xactimate or similar - I wrote my own program), rarely had to deal with indecisive customers, always got top dollar from ins companies - and always made sure all work was done using top quality materials and installers thereby earning, on average, a 41% per job profit. 

The nice thing about ins work was that anytime I came across one of those potential customers who thought they were going to play any of the typical BS games that many retail potential customers like to play, I said "you know, because of the storm, I've got several thousand other potential customers that need my services right now and I've got no time nor interest in dealing with your nonsense." NEXT...

What happens after a storm is that good and bad retail contractors see the damage and resulting opportunity as a windfall and they make the mistake of handing out free estimates all over town - each free estimate contractor usually trying to out bid the other. That is the wrong way to approach the recession proof "opportunity" that has presented it self after a storm.

Anyone who bids on storm damage work is doing it the wrong way which is why such a mess is created. Unfortunately, most contractors will choose to lose many thousands of dollars as a result of their mishandling of ins claims than invest a small amount of money in themselves to learn how to do it right which would help them to dramatically increase their profit potential.

Seeing the need for training in the process, I decided to lapse my GC license and commit all of my time to teaching other contractors how to do ins repairs the right way, understanding full well that only twenty percent of the market would take advantage of the program. But, that's the 80/20 rule that applies in most professions. Still, if only twenty percent of contractors out there take advantage of my program and, indeed, learn how to do ins repairs the right and profitable way, I've accomplished my goal.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Larry, I have found that the games people play come more form insurance than from retail. That's why i stick to the retail. I have NO time for games. 

I don't even want to get into the outbidding statement, yes it's true, but no PROFESSIONAL contractor would try to "outbid" another hail or retail. Note the keyword "professional". I would say there may only be one job a year where for what ever reason I want to get that one job so badly I use price as a factor. Besides every adjuster I have spoken with wants me to lower my price and tells me that he has hundreds of other contractors willing to do it for what he is offering, so what's the difference? Arguing about my price is a nice way to get me from zero to 60 in less than a second, retail or hail. 


Doing it right is simply what works. Not what works for YOU or Joe down the street, what works for me. So what's right? No free estimates, get the customer to sign a contingency. Is that right? NO, that is not right for the customer. Maybe for the contractor, not for the customer. That's some scandalous chit! Do what the insurance company is willing to do, right or wrong in terms of scope of work? Is that right for the customer? NO that is only good for the contractor and the insurance company. Is installing a minimum code roof right? No minimum code sucks! Do what is right for the building/project in everything you do hail or retail. That's what's right. If the customer is not willing to do what is right, or the insurance is not willing to pay for what is right, what is right for me is to walk away. here and now, I am making assumptions, I know nothing of the system you sell nor of your way of doings things, and not to be rude but I simply do not care. Changing my business model is not what is right. 

You say you have thousands of leads, and no doubt you are right. But on the retail side of things I have more leads than I can handle too. Leads are ez to get. I don't need isnurance leads. It's triple the work. 

Talking percentages is funny numbers too. I don't want to hit too hard on percentages and profit and markup because we can talk for days upon days about that. Is that gross, is that net, is that markup? etc.... Anyways, 41% aint bad. You can get that ez on retail also though. We should all be making 40%. That's always been the target. See that's the problem right there. Everyone who says "You make more money in insurance" always assumes people are out bidding each other and under pricing each other to get work. Sure there is a portion of that, but not any PROFESSIONALS. I could personally make alot more than I am already making if I chose to use cheaper materials, cheaper labor, and minimum code scope of work. I choose to make a little less because it buys me some peace of mind, but that's my choice. Even if I used cheaper materials and labor my price wouldn't change. 

As for losing thousands of dollars, the only thousands I lose is on the time I invest into free estimates. That's the down side of retail however. 

The fact of the matter is this: Retail is less paper work, less stress, less time waiting to get paid, less scum bags in retail so I stay away from hail. Would I in the future setup a hail division? Sure, if I didn't have to manage it. BUT there are some things that would not change because I care about my reputation and am in business for the long haul, unlike 99% of stormers. Therefore 99% of stormers who are out for fast cash would not be interested. So why even bother? 

I'm definetly in the 80% of contractors that won't take advantage, but because I simply can't tolerate insurance work and want as little to do with it as possible. Most people who call for an estimate for insuance work, never get past the intitiation phone call. That's the way I like it. I don't really like to over qualify, unless it's insurance or it's a real estate transaction. 

The more and more insurance becomes the norm the less and less I want to be involved in this industry. The more and more insurance scum bags restoration specialists become the way to run your business sucking on the insuance teet, the more and more I regret becoming a roofing contractor and wish I chose something else. I have been saying for many a year now, "I have only one regret in my life." Quite a few of you know what that is, but slowly the choice to become a roofing contractor is creeping into that category of regrets... and insurance scum bags (consumers and contractors) are a large part of the reason. Yes I am fighting the change, but not just because I am stubborn, but for good reason. It's just not right.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Here is a copy of a letter I sent to a customer yesterday. It is an insurance related job, this is a $50k job for roof and gutters. I already met with her, explained I will be charging more than the insurance company is willing to offer, explained it is for underlayment improvements and ventilation improvement and some other scope of work imprvements above and beyond "like replacement". 

Sharon, Attached is the proposal for the roofing work that we discussed. The proposal is fairly detailed so please do not hesitate to contact me with any questions. I feel that it is important that you understand the full roofing system, and not make any guesses especially when comparing our proposal.

I feel it is important to mention, since the insurance company will be paying for a portion of your roofing work; This roofing proposal includes some upgrades or alternates that is not "like replacement", therefore the insurance company will not pay for these upgrades in most cases. These upgrades include shingles to match the main house roof on the front porch, and copper counter flashing where the roof meets the wall. We would also install a new flat roofing system at the rear of the house even though you mentioned the insurance company is not willing to pay. We've also included a new skylight and under-eave ventilation which you do not currently have. I feel all of these things are necessary and what I would do if it were my own house.

*If you choose to hire us to replace the roof, I will at no cost to you, review the insurance estimate to check each line item for accuracy. I often find discrepancies or inaccuracies or omissions which will affect your compensation from the insurance company. I will also, at no cost to you, prepare a 2nd estimate for you to send to your insurance company for "like replacement". However if additional meetings, conversations, or research is necessary on my part in order to settle your claim, this can be provided on an hourly basis. *

It would be my pleasure to work with you on your roofing project. I know that we will provide the highest quality workmanship possible. If there is anything I can do to further earn your trust, please let me know!

Respectfully,

Grumpy Sumnabitch




Please note the bold underline section.


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## vtroofing (Sep 27, 2009)

get the customer to sign a contingency. Is that right? NO, that is not right for the customer. Maybe for the contractor, not for the customer. That's some scandalous chit! Do what the insurance company is willing to do, right or wrong in terms of scope of work? Is that right for the customer? NO that is only good for the contractor and the insurance company. 

I think we all know if we are giving the Homeowner the best available. I am not just talking product- we don't agree there- but the installation part. An open Contingency Contract *is *scandalous and only benefiting the Contractor to add or take away from install with but probably without the HO's knowledge. 

Seeking Insurance Work, especially those that are decent folks that are paying their Premiums as they increase annually and they continue to renew year after year finally have Acts of God damages should be treated properly and rightly and I am not convinced without proper assistance from someone like myself they might not get what they have been paying for all along. 

I want a secured Contract for the Work I feel is legitimate damage and fair scope, I want a signature and I like the Deductible Check at that point. My photos, Line Item lists, ect. leave with me otherwise. As I mentioned earlier in this post I do the best job possible and as a fast responder to Emergency Situations and full disclosure of what happens, what needs to happen and the why's I don't cnsider myself anything shy of PROFESSIONAL!


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## chb70 (Jan 19, 2009)

vtroofing

I have spent my entire career giving FREE ESTIMATES like everyone else.
If I decide to change that aspect of my business, it does not make me any more or less scandalous than I have been for the last 25 years. "I am what I am" as Popeye told me when I was a kid.
In other words if I was a proffesional before, I will be proffessioinal now, if I was a crook before, I would be a crook now. 
The Contigency contract does not have any effect on the way I treat my customers, I was taught at an early age that refferals are the best way to make new customers. If I take care of my Insurance customers the way I have always taken care of my Free Estimates customers I think that I will be just fine contigency contract or not.


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## vtroofing (Sep 27, 2009)

Nobody wants a Estimate. Too vague. I too used to Market "Always Free Estimates" but not I get a call it is for a quote. A real price by what I observe. 

I want a secured Contract for the Work I feel is legitimate damage and fair scope, I want a signature and I like the Deductible Check at that point. My photos, Line Item lists, ect. leave with me otherwise. As I mentioned earlier in this post I do the best job possible and as a fast responder to Emergency Situations and full disclosure of what happens, what needs to happen and the why's I don't consider myself anything shy of PROFESSIONAL!

Leaving blanks or a new roof replacement without specs is not my idea of on the up and up. 

Do I think the Insurance Co owes for a unaffected slope? Most likely no. I don't know the argument line to tell a Adjuster (Field or Desk) however I push for everything on that slope, all jacks, flashings, vents, and crossing the valley if there is one, or two. 

"Here sign here, I will work with the IC to get you a new roof" does not fly with me.


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## chb70 (Jan 19, 2009)

I don't leave blanks on my contingency contract, it is filled in with everything we are going to do and use.
The only reason I use them is because I have been burned by customers in the past. 
I have found it very difficult to secure a signed contract with a customer to pay out of pocket, if for some reason they do not receive approved claim.

The customer will be the first to say " What happens if I get rejected"
If I use a contigency contract I get a signature no problem, if I tell them you will have to pay out of pocket 99 out of 100 tell ya see you later.
If I am going to take the time to do insurance work, I am goimg to make sure I get to do the work and get paid for all the extra BS you have to go through. (Meet Adjusters, extra paper work, numerous calls, second Inspections, etc.)

How does the contingency contract benifit a customer: If I don't do my job correctly or the insurance adjuster does not do his/her job correctly the customer tears up contract or pays out of pocket, its up to them.

As for the contractor: I do everything I am supposed to do I get to do the work, customer can't go find someone cheaper.

I am not a storm chaser I work Lake County, IL and some of the surrounding areas. But if a storm comes into my area I will use all the tools the state will allow me to use. Which like I said in another post that will change on Jan.1


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

If the customer is signing an agreement foer work to be done on their house, without a defined detailed scope of work, they are just plain stupid. The contingency agreement is a contract, legally binding them to to the terms of the contract. Often they have no idea what they are signing. Often times the contractor has no diea what work he is going to be doing, "Eh, I'll just do what ever the insurance is willing to cover." 


As for giving out free estimates, I think we all should charge a nominal fee for our time. Nothing is free. I wish I had the balls to do it.


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## larryb (Jul 22, 2010)

Never gave free estimates on ins jobs, a proven costly waste of any contractors time and money. Usually received my leads through radio ad's and past customer referrals (didn't say I had 1,000's of leads, said there were usually several thousand other HO's in the area after a storm that were also potential customers). 

My presentation to the prospective client with storm damage consisted of several pages starting with my company info, history, licenses and ins, etc. Then, "Why Choose My Company" and illustration showing how I increased every customers ins claim settlement then a blank contingency agreement with a ficticious customer name and address - "Happy Customer at 1210 2nd St, Anytown, USA" (as an example), so I could explain and they could see and understand how the contingency process works and that it was a contract unless the ins co denied their claim, then a "Claim Information and Instructions" page that directed the potetntial customer how to properly file the claim then what to do after they received their claim # then a redacted loss report showing what a ins co attempted to underpay and then what I was able to get the ins co to ultimately pay then a completed copy of the "Happy Customer" contingency agreement so they could see what it looked like when complete.

All of this was done before they ever signed a contingency agreement. None of the usual nonsense about paying their deductible, they get a "free" roof, etc. Also none of the usual nonsense about doing the job for less then the next guy. Instead, emphasis was placed on getting the potential customer fully paid for all legitimate damage. They paid full premium, therefore, it made sense to them, once the process was thoroughly explained, that their ins co should fully pay their claim.

They then understood where the final numbers would come from and that they always had control of that info because the loss reports would be sent to them. When they understood that the specified repairs at the specified rates (once properly adjusted closer to or at RTA) would then be transferred onto the contingency agreement/contract, they knew that nothing could ever be hidden from them so they had nothing to fear. They could then agree to pay additionally for any upgrades or changes they might have wanted. Everybody knew exactly what was going to be done, exactly what materials would be used and exactly how much everything would cost. 

In many cases, I asked for and received as much as a 50% deposit. Too much? According to whom? That way, I never had to worry about cash flow if there was ever a delay in receiveing the final payment. 

While local retail contractors were handing out estimates all over town and eventually getting some of them signed - often way below RTA and with much of the damage unaccounted for, I was able to sign up plenty of work at top profit and earning as much on one job as they were earning on three. And, yes, there were plenty of out of towners who had hired local "sales people" (ins claim specialists) signing up all kinds of work that was often underpaid and under claimed because of lack of experience on the part of the hired "guns", but that had no effect on my production or my profits.

The above is what I teach and it is highly effective which is attested to by some of the contractors from across the country that have previously ordered my training program and put it to work for them. 

My customers were happy and so was my bank account (and my wife).

Because of my 20 additional years of ins industry experience, I knew how to handle adjusters and in house claim reps so I could get those claims paid right and with little interference. I also never made the mistake of writing too much business (exceeding my business "tipping point") so as to get into trouble.

There are good and bad retail contractors just as there are good and bad ins repair contractors. 

for ref see: www.burcos.com/recover.htm


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## dougger222 (Aug 13, 2010)

I'll be honest here,

Some claims/adjusters/insurance companies get me rather frustrated. A lot however are very simple and the end result is were I need to be. There has been a few adjusters I simply won't meet with or deal with on the homeowners behalf. The same is true of insurance companies as a whole. allstate and american family are two I'd rather not have to deal with at all. The funny thing is am fam used to be great to work with but in the past 2 years they've been horrible. 

Some adjusters like to play mind games and you have to deal with those types as they come and GO. Seems like the female adjusters can be the toughest to work with in general although I've had a few really good ones. 

Some adjusters act as though they are paying for the claim out of pocket!

Most adjusters like writing claims and they don't bat an eye to pay for damaged items (what we pay insurance premiums for).

What I've done to combat the adjusters who ask for codes is have them on my desktop on PDF for quick and easy email or print and fax. It's no different from the out of state adjusters or the local adjusters who request the code language. Once they read it they paid, plain and simple. This small step takes perhaps a minute or two, no big deal...

My favorite to deal with for about the 7th year now is State Farm. Have had super good luck with the Dallas, Jacksonville, and Nebraska claim departments. What I like best about it is when you call in you talk to a live claims rep in no time at all. All the other big insurance companies you get stuck with a claims rep.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

I hate to genralize but all state is the worst I've dealt with, and some of the female adjusters seem to have something to prove and like to argue with me more. I guess they know I probably won't hit them because they are a chick.


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## dougger222 (Aug 13, 2010)

Grumpy said:


> I hate to genralize but all state is the worst I've dealt with, and some of the female adjusters seem to have something to prove and like to argue with me more. I guess they know I probably won't hit them because they are a chick.


LOL!

To quote the words of greatness, "Kill them with kindness". This was once said by a guy I know who mananged $2,000,000 a year in insurance work. Half the leads he generated from poeple he knew the other half came from the insurance restoration firm he worked with. He seemed to have no issue juggling betwen 15-20 jobs at a time. These weren't just roofs either, most were roofing, siding, windows, gutters, etc. 

His words have stuck with me and I've seen other GC's I know who have had horrible dealings with insurance personal who haven't grasped this idea. Also know a few GC's who've gone about the nice way and have very happy dealings with adjusters.

Keep in mind most field adjusters deal with very aggressive storm chasing salesmen. The adjusters get attacked as soon as they start questioning either the storm damage or the salesman. Some insurance companies send out 2-3 field adjusters to deal with some local "storm chaser" type companies. 

If you can walk the walk and talk the talk use it to your advantage but don't undermind the adjusters. Adjusters like to think they are in total control and don't be afraid to remind them that! I've had several adjusters lean towards a denial of a roof only to later pay for it after talking with them a little. My GC friend has also noticed this. His angle is to see if the adjuster are into hockey as it's his favorite sport. I've seen him with adjusters on roofs talk about hockey for 20-30 minutes!!!


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Dougger, my management style is "STFU and do what I say!"


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