# SPF and torch down



## bacon8685

I am a maintenance man at a humane society animal shelter in florida and we have a thrift store that used to be a old hardware store. it has developed leaks all over the roof, and has a raised section of the roof that is about 3 feet taller then the rest of it. my question is that the raised section have a type of roof system that appears to be like a spf system but i'm not 100% sure my boss has found a community service worker that does roofs and he said you can put torch down over that sort of roof, does anyone know if this is true wheni ran into it working for a general contractor we were told that type of roofing system has to be removed before anything is put over it. does anyone know ?


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## Ed the Roofer

No, you can not, but I don't have personal experience, just information from other roofers on the net.

Either patch the SPUF, Sprayed Poly-Urethane Roof, or remove and replace it.

Ed


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## Grumpy

In any of the specs I heave read I have never seen spf as a suitable substrate for modified bitumen. Infact come to think of it I have never seen spf as a suitable substrate for any roofing system other than those that are liquid applied, like elastomeric built up or polyurea. 


This guy may "do roofs" but is he a roofer?


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## bacon8685

He says that he is a "sub contractor" but as it is community service mandaited by the court system here in florida there's really no way for us to verify that he is what he says he is. In my opinion he doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground but its my boss that trust him. i just wanted to see if it was safe or even possible to put torch down over spf roofing system and in my opinion i do not like the spf system we've had nothing but trouble outta it. but we are a non profit organization so funds to replace it are very very very low so we have to do patch and go work.


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## Grumpy

In FLorida installing roofing without proper licensing is a felony. He should be able to provide you with documentation of his ROOFING licenses(s). I says plural licenses, since I Know each county has their own licensing. 

Torching to it will ruin the spf for sure. Try contacting a company who specializes in restoring spf. Maybe try spray maxx


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## bacon8685

Thats what i have figured and read I know when i worked for a general contractor we had so many diffeerent lic. it wasn'te ven funny. I figured it would ruinu the roof and end up costing more damage so basically a complete tear down and start over from the deck up, or has nayone heard of a sealent called coolseal we used to use it on mobile homes and flat to slight pitched roofs was wondering if there was a less expensive alternative to that.


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## SinglePlyGuy

I would HIGHLY recommend NOT putting torch down directly over SPF.

As Ed mentioned, coat the roof or get rid of it. Depending on the deck makeup you "MAY" be able to get away with Mechanically fastening through it with a seperator board and a membrane.

I would lean toward getting rid of it personally...esp if it is bad shape and has moisture.


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## Grumpy

Cool seal is about as cheap as you can get without sacrificing quality. The stuff sold on the shelves at home depot may look similiar to other elastomeric products like cool seal; however their % of solids, or lack there of, make them basically house paint and you won't accomplish anything by installing the thinner products.


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## rwolfe

bacon,

You absolutely cannot torch a mod over a puf roof. (funny someone would mention that though. Typical florida roofing)The only thing you can do is apply an elastomeric coating or slap another crappy puf over the top. Assuming the puf is not under warranty, there are a number of elastomerics you can use. But I've have yet to see a puf roof that wasn't cratoring all over the place. Shame on the owner for buying the junk. But you have a choice of several APOC or Neogard products that will do what they claim to be able to do. 

rw.

If your anywhere near fort lauderdale, I'll get it taken care of for you.

rw


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## rwolfe

bacon8685 said:


> Thats what i have figured and read I know when i worked for a general contractor we had so many diffeerent lic. it wasn'te ven funny. I figured it would ruinu the roof and end up costing more damage so basically a complete tear down and start over from the deck up, or has nayone heard of a sealent called coolseal we used to use it on mobile homes and flat to slight pitched roofs was wondering if there was a less expensive alternative to that.


BTW.

The owner bought a puf system because he was looking for less alternative. You'll be dealing with this roof for the life of the puf. Take that to the bank. If the puf is in decent shape, don't look for the cheap way out when considering a coating. Or that will be the second mistake made on that roof.


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## bacon8685

thanks for all the replies, my boss went ahead and did allow the "roofer" to do it which he also did it the morning after a hard hard rain which i high objected to him doing it and allowing at least 24 hrs to dry out. so hopefully nothing will really come of it and it'll work the why this guy says but i highly doubt it will. Thanks again for the posts.


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## rwolfe

It won't work. First good wind event and that bad boy is gone.


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## Ed the Roofer

You should inform your boss when that system fails, that it would have been MUCH cheaper to do it the Right Way, the first time, instead of wasting all the money to do it SOooo Wrong in the first place.

Ed


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## AaronB.

And I understand that you guys awould all talk your garbage about foam only because you fear what you don't know. 

It's ok... get some knowledge and your fears will subside.


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## jimmy mac

*anything over foam is bad*

he will put the roof on fire


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## jimmy mac

make sure this guy is heavily insured, as soon as he hits the foam with the torch, grab the smores.


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## rwolfe

AaronB. said:


> And I understand that you guys awould all talk your garbage about foam only because you fear what you don't know.
> 
> It's ok... get some knowledge and your fears will subside.


Actually, I have tremendous knowledge about foam. Especially tearing it off. 

It is very bad stuff. Especially in florida. I'll tell you that I like the fact I can create slope real cheap. i like the fact i can add r-value real cheap. I like the fact I can add reflectivity real cheap. I like a product I can get an unlimited wind speed warranty with the product.
My only problem is that is a garbage product for a roof system. Can't install it in 80 percent humidity. Punctures easy. Birds eat it. Guys installing it over old roof systems without even considering that the old system leaked and may hold moisture. It's garbage. Cheap to put down, expensive to maintain and expensive to tear off. Bad roofing product.


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## eddie

Some how its all over the state of FL but it doesnt work .:laughing:


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## BornaRoofer

Dont feel bad foam guys. RWolfe bashes any roofing system hes not familiar with. Unfortunately for him if its not fibertite hes clueless.


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## rwolfe

Bornaroofer should be born in denial.
Somebody argue Fibertite is garbage. Go ahead.

Foam is the best. I love foam. 

By the way, it's being torn off all over florida. and replaced with modified. People wont throw anything else on the roof after dealing with this stuff. Funny. I guess that's one good thing that has come from the spf movement. People spending a little more money for good system..


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## robert

We spray chopped fiberglass over spf have few never had a problem,chop it and aluminum emulsion on top never had a problem give a ten year warranty on it to boot.


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## Rosco

I've seen plenty of PUF in rough shape, but usually the issue is the topcoat. I don't understand why people put acrylics on foam, as even the best gunner can't avoid a birdbath here and there. The key here is the term "applicator error". I don't get 90+ mph winds once or twice per year in my area, but I do see two guys and a truck flying in PUF over wet substrates.


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## AaronB.

What do you put on foam, Rosco?


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## Rosco

I'd recommend urethane (I'm a big fan). Acrylics are what you usually see, as price is an issue, but like I mentioned they can't withstand birdbath ponding.


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## Grumpy

I did a major repair job on a puf with acrylic coating and ceramic granuals. Damn near none of the granuals stuck. We patched each and every penetration then walked every square foot and patched areas with cracks, exposed insulation, or looked thin. 

The roof was done all wrong. I was told that they had nothing but problems since day one, and I beleive it. The manufacturer claimed installation error and efused to fix it. The out of state roofer claimed the manufacturer issued a warranty and it was out of their hands. LOL So they had to pay an additional $12k for a local roofer (Me) to fix it. I used solvent based elastomeric roof coating and elastomeric mastic for that repair.


I also heard they over-sprayed a parking lot full of cars. This is a nursing home.


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## AaronB.

What was the source/cause of the problems, Grumpy?


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## Grumpy

100% installation error in my opinion. Not only did they foam in a downspout from one upper section to a lower section, but some plumbing soil pipes were turned into roof drains. Yes they sprayed about 8" of insulation in some areas for what reason, I do not know. Furthermore their edge detail left almost a completely exposed edge of insulation. Finally to top it off they used acrylic and there was alot of ponding water since it was a butterfly style roof and everything drained to the center. 


The customer asked for a price to "redo" the roof. I told them the only way I could warrant that roof would be to strip it off, which would have been a million dollar project. The other alternative would be to redo all the edge metal and a completely new elastomeric roof coating. That'd still be over a quarter million dollar job... and their roof was plus or minus 5 years old. I think less than that maybe 2 or 3 actually.

Last time I drove by they demolished half of the entire building, which was all 1 story, and are now beginning to build a 2 story section essentially doubling the number of rooms.


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## AaronB.

If you ever run into this situation again, let me know. We can always find solutions if we look hard enough.


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## kimboy

make sure this guy is heavily insured, as soon as he hits the foam with the torch, grab the smores.


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