# Need urgent advice on roof job



## mcvg2002 (Dec 6, 2011)

Hi guys,

I know this is a contractor forum, but I am running out of options and need the advice of unbiased professionals. So we bought a new home and the roof was finished. We got a few quotes one which was way too low and two that were in the same price range. We did a looking on the companies and one had a complaint and no license so we hired the one with license. What a mistake!! Less than one month later i have a major leak in one of the valleys. I called them up and they came back to fix with a bucket of plastic cement. I asked if that was the right way and if it would try up with time and leak again and they said it would seal for good. Well after the first time they could not find the prob and came back a few days later when the entire ceiling in the bedroom caved and walls were drenched. I stripped the walls and ceiling to avoid mold and cleaned out the wet insulation. So they add more plastic cement and I told them that I didn't like the idea and wanted to rip out the shingles and redo that section. He said that it was not necessary. We have two identical valleys on each side of the house and he applied plastic cement on both spots just to avoid issues in the 2nd even though it was not leaking. In a way it made sense to me because if they build it bad on one side the other side probably sux also. The third time he came back with his pitch and after an hour of hustling again, I went up on the roof and after seeing what was done, I demanded that he fix it the proper way by ripping it all off and starting the valleys over. He said he would talk to his partner and get back to me. A day later nothing and left him a message about taking legal action and got back to me right away saying he would rip off the singles and restart. now he says he will rip off about 10' high into the valley (total is prob about 16-20') but he is saying that he does not need to remove the sticky membrane or flashing. He will add pitch all along the flashing and re-install the shingles in a cross(wooven) pattern as they is now a 1" gap in between and flashing exposed. 

Does this sound right or shall I force him to rip off the flashing and membrane also and go all the way up? Also I noticed from the attic that there was a section of plywood (at a joint) about 2'x2' that was rotten. Instead of him changing it he put a flashing on it. Is this ok or shall I demand to replace?

These guys are licensed contractors but I think I would of done a better job and after seeing what his employee tried to do to repair the job, they look like clowns. Last night I noticed water coming in around a Maximum Vent and also a plumbing vent. Also I have a couple of caps with nails exposed. They also never used a chalkline so all the caps look off, but thats purely cosmetic and remind me for the next 20 years what an idiot I was for hiring them. If it was up to me I would redo the whole roof, but I live in Canada and the judicial system here will take 2-3 years and even after that I am not guaranteed to see any money from them.

My options are to have him repair (even though I have no confidence in him anymore) or hire another company to do the repairs but then there is a conflict for warranty and I can;t afford to repay to do the entire roof again.

Let me know your thoughts please so I know what to tell him I want done when he comes tomorrow morning.


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## mcvg2002 (Dec 6, 2011)

here are some pics I find alerting but not sure if I am overdoing it. In one you see they nailed too low or you see the top half of the shingle. Other you see nails exposed. There is a slice next to the maximum vent which is leaking and does valley look properly done?


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

You've been burned pretty badly. 
It looks as if some school kids did the work, not a roofing company, nor does it look like there were any roofers on the roof either. They couldn't even drive their nails into the white nail line. Offsets appear to be wrong too.
I'd get with your local Contractor Licensing Board and and the BBB to get the ball rolling. Also, I'd contact some local news crew looking for a story about make-believe roof contractors ripping people off. You also need to contact the rep of whatever brand name shingles were used too. Looks as if their warranty has been voided.


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## mcvg2002 (Dec 6, 2011)

Yes I got my local liscencing board but they explained it can take 2-3 years if i see any cash and still no guarantee. can the thing be salvaged and made right or are we looking at a complete gut job?


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

All the detail work, valleys, vents, any other penetrations, or walls need to be redone at the least. Those idiots didn't have a clue about anything. You might want to save this thread and print out any other comments made here by other roofers if you end up in court. (Give the idiots a copy so they can laugh too.) The Contractor's Board needs to pull their license too.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

This is an example of the stuff that makes roofers look bad. People see that and lump real roofers into 'that' catergory. Those guys aren't roofers in any sense of the word. I'm truly sorry about your problem= and will get off my soapbox, but please contact everybody you can to get your money back so you can hire roofers to fix that mess.


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## mcvg2002 (Dec 6, 2011)

The construction license board says I need to give him a notice with a chance to fix the problems, which he said he will do, but I don't have confidence in their job after seeing these pics. do I let them redo and if it does not leak thank my lucky stars or refuse them all together, pay 1-2k to another company to repair the obvious issues, and then hope to get it back in a few years after getting a judgement? Can they make it any worse than it is now?? I feel like a complete idiot for hiring these guys but you figure they have no complaints at BBB and have a valid contractor licence and they should be ok.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

"but you figure they have no complaints at BBB and have a valid contractor licence and they should be ok." Paying the BBB their fee will get you a great rating. I got an A+ days after I got my license.

The whole valley area(s) need to be removed. ( All of them!) That bad wood needs to be repalced. Storm shield put down, then the valley metal. Then the shingles need to be correctly installed to complete the project.
"shingles need to be correctly installed" I doubt they can do that.:no:
All your vent collars need to be pulled and replaced. Looks like $3K to possibly ever $5K of repair work. And you still won't have any warranty from the new comapny other than their specific areas of patch.

Where are you located? Maybe somebody from the forum is near you.


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## mcvg2002 (Dec 6, 2011)

I am near Montreal, Quebec in Canada


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

There are a few Canadians that post here and other roofing forums too. I wish you the best in this endeavor.


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## mcvg2002 (Dec 6, 2011)

thanks tinner


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

Where the hip and valley come together, that whole area should have been left open. Roofers call that mess the 'disappearing valley trick'. It never works. It just creates a huge mess. The two valleys appear to be semi-open with metal showing in the center, and that won't work either. I'm sure the valley shingles weren't clipped, tit cut off/, either.
Shingles were staggered back and forth up the roof which is wrong and the joints are too close together which voided any warranty. The joints must be a minimum of 4" apart, and that's close.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

That vent is installed wrong. Half of it should have bee exposed to the weather. I bet the pipe vents are wrong too. Here are some examples. 
http://www.albertsroofing.com/Power Vent Installation.htm


AND ROOF CEMENT CANNOT BE USED ON A SHINGLE ROOF TO FIX A VALLEY OR A PIPE. IF THE IDIOTS ARE GOING UP THERE WITH ROOF CEMENT, THEY'RE CREATING MORE PROBLEMS THAN YOU ALREADY HAVE!
Sorry, caps got locked, but it probably needed to be hollered anyway.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

This job in Hurricane Alley on the NC coast might give you some idea of how an open valley should look. http://www.albertsroofing.com/Valley Details.htm
I don't have any current pix of your style valley. Here's one that's similar. The metal had rusted out and I replaced both valleys and the pan. We only get about 20" of snow here.


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## OnlytheBEST (Dec 7, 2011)

Call MIKE HOLMES


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## 1985gt (Dec 21, 2010)

Wow. There is just so much wrong with that job. That valley will be a trick to get right in the first place. Only people with real experience can work two valleys coming together. I wouldn't accept anything less then completely reworking the valleys. Although I don't know if that will solve anything if they couldn't get it right the first time. Honestly maybe a complete re-roof is in order. The whole thing looks pretty poor.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

Any update?


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

"but make sure you have a warranty for the shingles this should not be a problem if you have a warranty for the shingles it should not void that." 

Interesting thought. Too bad the make believe roofer voided the shingle warranty with the high nails and the racked 3" stagger. You must have missed those pictures. I'm hoping the owner got the new roof he deserves.


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## chb70 (Jan 19, 2009)

Do the contractors in Canada have to carry Liabilty Insurance.
From what I am looking at you should not have a very hard time 
winning a claim against this company for the work they performed.

Complete Roof


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## smalpierre (Jan 2, 2012)

If you called me to look at that, I'd be telling you that you need to tear off, and replace the roof. These guys didn't even bother reading a book on roofing, or for pete's sakes read the package of shingles!

None of the details are right as was said before. The offsets aren't right, penetrations are beyond wrong, the valleys should NOT be woven, they should be cut - but you pass the valley with one side, overlap it with the other side and cut the one side, although you should weave the lowest two courses. They cut both sides, leaving a gap with roll metal under it. You CAN do what's called an open valley, but it's done with W metal, not roll metal. You should NOT see any metal in your valleys, and the cut should be straight - a chalk line cost all of 10 bucks ...

Having two valleys run into each other like that puts a lot of water in that area, I'd put a metal pan under it in addition to ice and water shield in the valleys (which I do on every job).

These guys might have a license, and good standing with the BBB - but how long have they been in business? Anybody can go get a license, join the BBB and be in good standing ... doesn't mean they can do a good job and they likely won't STAY in good standing.

I feel terrible for you, as I do a lot of customers I run into. I see garbage all the time - but this really takes the cake!

They didn't adjust exposures to get the top row right? They could have at least put in a short course.


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## johnny (Jan 4, 2012)

You cant trust those guys to be able to repair that roof. Im not positive but I think on the other side of the valley, where the bull/muck/cement is the shingles dont have an offset or stagger. They ran them like they were three tab shingles. That dead valley will need to be tore out and ran in correctly. Actually all of your details will have to be redone. When you get it fixed you should have the roofer search out all crotch nails and fix those because those leaks may not pop up for a few years down the road. There are a number of things you can do to get the word out about these butchers. I actually just did a story about a guy who has a habit of crap like this. http://jhurst.blogspot.com/p/ensuring-honesty.html
You can do a google check on these guys and leave comments on every link they show up on. Contact the BBB. Call a local news organization. As far as your money, your probably screwed because they most likely dont have money and wont stay in business with this type of work. Do your own story on these guys and it will show up in their search results as well. Stop by my blog and checkout the story I did on a certain butcher. Its at jhurst.blogspot.com the story is called Ensuring Honesty. There are a number of other articles there that may help you with this issue in terms of advise as well. Good Luck


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## Roofmeister (Dec 18, 2011)

I looked at the images and am just shocked..

No offense but it looks like a home owners neighbor kid did it. That's terrible!

Best of luck with it. I hate to see anyone facing something like this.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

I would love an update and hopefully a happy ending.


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## 4 seasons (Dec 31, 2009)

Truly an unfortunate position for the HO. I'm looking forward to an update and hopefully a resolution for them.


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## charlotteroofers (Oct 4, 2010)

That is a horrible job, I would call an attorney immediately about this butchering they call a roof.
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