# Do You Use Fall Protection? - Be Honest!



## daviddeschaine (May 26, 2010)

Do You Use Fall Protection? 

*I drive by and see roofing jobs everyday, and no one is wearing fall protection on the roof.* I watch videos online, and 1 out of 1000 videos show any fall protection.

*I'll never Tell* :thumbup:

Roofers Know What They Are Doing - Fall Protection Is Not Our Favorite Topic! - *But it is Law - Right?*


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## kadesmith (Jan 19, 2011)

As a do it yourself home guy, I wish I had fall protection. Nothing like sliding down the roof thinking, "This isn't going to end well." 
Then landing on the concrete driveway only to take off your shoe and find this:


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## siddle (Apr 12, 2011)

I have Fall Protection equipments But honestly speaking, I seldom use them.
______________________
Absolute Steel— Steel building and carport kits with nationwide jobsite delivery. Easy DIY—America’s easiest to install building system. Watch the video & see for yourself.


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## Veronica (Apr 12, 2011)

I watched some guys roofing in the dark with one guy holding a lamp over the other while he was hammering away. No fall protection equipment or anything. I was so tempted to call the OHSA police but it was 9.30pm on a Saturday night and all I wanted was for them to be done as they'd been working on my neighbors house since 8am in the morning and I wanted some sleep!


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

My workers are now required to wear harnesses on all shingle jobs period no discussion. Toe boards are still ok, but the harnesses too must now be worn. 

On low slope jobs smaller than 50 squares fall protection per say is not necessarily required IF you have a safety monitor. Having said that, we have a 80 square job coming up pretty soon that I'll have perimiter warning lines setup around. 


Do we ALWAYS wear fall protection? No, but that has changed. The fines are too big and since OSHA started cracking down there is no choice. 


veronica, should have called the police. Chances are there are noise ordinances they were in voilation of. In most areas around here there are 7am - 7pm rules or sun up to sun down rules for allowing construction.


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## restoration101 (Apr 29, 2011)

I took the OSHA course and TOLD my workers to ALWAYS use safety equipment. Last week I got the dreaded call by an OSHA inspector. I pleaded to him to give us a break since our workers disobeyed us when we were not there and since it is the first we deal with them. You will get fined BIG time if they catch you. I thought it would never happen to us since we train our crews on safety. I cannot stress this enough be loud to your crews on this subject.



Grumpy said:


> My workers are now required to wear harnesses on all shingle jobs period no discussion. Toe boards are still ok, but the harnesses too must now be worn.
> 
> On low slope jobs smaller than 50 squares fall protection per say is not necessarily required IF you have a safety monitor. Having said that, we have a 80 square job coming up pretty soon that I'll have perimiter warning lines setup around.
> 
> ...


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

:laughing:


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

restoration101 said:


> I took the OSHA course and TOLD my workers to ALWAYS use safety equipment. Last week I got the dreaded call by an OSHA inspector. I pleaded to him to give us a break since our workers disobeyed us when we were not there and since it is the first we deal with them. You will get fined BIG time if they catch you. I thought it would never happen to us since we train our crews on safety. I cannot stress this enough be loud to your crews on this subject.


 If you can PROVE that you trained your crews with signed documentation showing that they have been provided with the equipment and siogned documentation showing they have been instructed on the use, you can get the citations thrown out or at least reduced.

One thing they will always ask is if you have a safety manual. If you don't that's an instant fine, so everyone should have one and have a signed document showing that the employees have received a copy.

Another way they like to get you is to see proof of weekly safety meetings. Every friday morning we do a weekly safety meeting. 


Finally I would have fired the employee(s) who were in voilation of company policy. Make an example of them. The rest of your crew will wear the harnesses.

I still see guys every day in my travels with NO fall protection of any kind. Always have and always will.


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## siddle (Apr 12, 2011)

You are absolutely right, Grumpy. As always.
___________________
Absolute Steel— Steel building and carport kits with nationwide jobsite delivery. Easy DIY—America’s easiest to install building system. Watch the video & see for yourself.


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## restoration101 (Apr 29, 2011)

thanks


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## MGP Roofing (Mar 23, 2010)

We do. Scaffolding or safety rails usually, the harness comes out on the small jobs. Like when I was doing repairs to a wind damaged long run steel roof following a storm last week; I was gad I did because new factory painted sheets + a sudden shower of rain = sliding down the roof & being left hanging off the edge of the 2 storey house! I shudder at the thought of what might have been had I not been using the fall protection!


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

MGP Roofing said:


> We do. Scaffolding or safety rails usually, the harness comes out on the small jobs. Like when I was doing repairs to a wind damaged long run steel roof following a storm last week; I was gad I did because new factory painted sheets + a sudden shower of rain = sliding down the roof & being left hanging off the edge of the 2 storey house! I shudder at the thought of what might have been had I not been using the fall protection!


 So Like I've said "COMMON SENSE" !!..:whistling:


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## Townsend (Jul 26, 2011)

In our area there has been a lot of talk about OSHA coming out to more residential roofing jobs and ensuring people are wearing fall protection. It appears a few of the better companies are finally wearing harnesses but not everyone.

We were cited about 6 months ago while working on an apartment complex right next to OSHA's office. I had no idea until they came walking over, taking pictures all morning of us working. Previous to this job *NOBODY* in town wore fall protection. Since that job, my guys always have it on. I can't say the use it 100% correctly but lines are across the roof and harnesses are on everybody.


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## John's Roofing (Nov 16, 2011)

I didn't think it was necessary on low slopes, but after OSHA stopped by and educated me, I find it is doesn't take much longer to do the job right...and that means starting with fall protection...and yes make sure your crew knows that you are serious about it.....


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Low slope has more gray area that steep slope. If the roof is less than 50 squares I beelive a safety monitor is adequate fall protection. If it more than 50 squares, I figure in a couple hours to setup the cones and flags at the perimiter of the work area and anyone outside the flag perimiter wears a harness. 

In the past on low slope I used to be less forceful about the harness rule, especially since most of our roofs are less than 50 square, but lately I have been making it mandatory. I showed up to a job the other day and one of my guys was within a flagged off perimiter but dumping trash down a chute. I made him put on his harness since he was 1' from the edge, not 6' from the edge. The flags wouldn't do much to stop him if he slipped. I suppose we could have built a fence, but easier just to put on the harness.


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## kubie (Apr 26, 2009)

we use roof jacks and sometimes a harness, but thinking on purchasing those roof jacks with the guardrails attached


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

The roof jacks no longer qualify as fall protection. You shoudl have one harness for each roofer. I think the guard rails may qualify though. Alot of work setting the rails up though, no?


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## kubie (Apr 26, 2009)

they install like a normal jack, then slip in a mid and a top 2x4 rail.
but they cost around $80 each


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## John's Roofing (Nov 16, 2011)

We are using the guard rail fall protection on any 5:12 pitch roof or steeper. Takes about an hour to put up. On the lower roofs we use the monitor system, but I find it takes a special person to be a monitor. Most of my employees find it hard not to help out others while on the roof, and the monitor isn't there to do that....his job his monitor safety for the other workers.


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## 1985gt (Dec 21, 2010)

@Grumpy If your using a trash chute you can install guard rails around the trash cute and they wouldn't have to wear a harness. If you think about it, it doesn't make much sense, they can still fall down the trash chute.

@ John's Roofing The "monitor" can work as in hand the workers out side the warning lines but very small mundane tasks that won't take their attention off the workers. Also safety monitors wont cut it on any "sloped" roof. I believe it is 2-3 :12 and greater.


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## John's Roofing (Nov 16, 2011)

All of the regulations are on OSHA's website. And as far as the monitor doing any kind of work of work...however small it may be...he doesn't do it on my roof...Don't want him or her being distracted at all or having it a judgement call with the OSHA inspector driving by that they are roofing ...Better safe ! !

WE COVER YOUR DREAMS ! !


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## rooftrooper 1 (Nov 27, 2011)

i hate those damn ropes i remeber hanging by a thread back n the day


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

Only work positioning lines here, sans fall arrest lines which I know are also required. I just feel one line is plenty enough to trip on.


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## NLshinglerBC (Nov 12, 2011)

yeah positioning D - rings on harness are clutch for hangin on da slopes. lanyard through the rope grab then clip lanyard on each side..
if no D rings ill put the rope through my legs and almost lean or sit on the rope.
if you trust your equipment it can get things goin pretty quick if u know how to hang on a rope properly, especially if you got two guys capable of hanging.
sick for bangin on first few rows on steep slope an gettin ur jacks on


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

I use the Black I'D from Petzl.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

All my Hook-Ladders have line attachment points too. I sometimes need to use ascenders to stand in loops for difficult jobs. I was 'standing' well below the gutter on(off) this 16/12 to install the valley. I couldn't get a ladder in below this spot.


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## NLshinglerBC (Nov 12, 2011)

lol
never used a hook ladderer, stupid, they say thats what your supposed to do to set up initial anchor point but EFF that lol
you are INSANE


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

It's safe enough on that pitch. That roof will split raindrops.:laughing:

I also do real anchor points too. Here's a view. I'm not hooked to the ladder, but a removable anchor beside it.

Another look at the 16/12.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

Found the pic I was looking for.


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

Grumpy said:


> My workers are now required to wear harnesses on all shingle jobs period no discussion. Toe boards are still ok, but the harnesses too must now be worn.
> 
> On low slope jobs smaller than 50 squares fall protection per say is not necessarily required IF you have a safety monitor. Having said that, we have a 80 square job coming up pretty soon that I'll have perimiter warning lines setup around.
> 
> ...


Make sure that you nderstand the definition and responsibilities of a Safety Monitor... You can only use a Safety Monitor on a Low Sloped Roof... _Low-slope roof_ means a roof having a slope less than or equal to 4 in 12 (vertical to horizontal).

Effective 09/16/2011, New Fall Protection Directive states that 
*1926.501(b)(10)*
"Roofing work on Low-slope roofs." Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (b) of this section, each employee engaged in roofing activities on low-slope roofs, with unprotected sides and edges 6 feet (1.8 m) or more above lower levels shall be protected from falling by guardrail systems, safety net systems, personal fall arrest systems, or a combination of warning line system and guardrail system, warning line system and safety net system, or warning line system and personal fall arrest system, or warning line system and safety monitoring system. Or, on roofs 50-feet (15.25 m) or less in width (see Appendix A to subpart M of this part), the use of a safety monitoring system alone [i.e. without the warning line system] is permitted.

*1926.501(b)(11)*"Steep roofs." Each employee on a steep roof with unprotected sides and edges 6 feet (1.8 m) or more above lower levels shall be protected from falling by guardrail systems with toeboards, safety net systems, or personal fall arrest systems.

*1926.501(b)(13)* "Residential construction." Each employee engaged in residential construction activities 6 feet (1.8 m) or more above lower levels shall be protected by guardrail systems, safety net system, or personal fall arrest system unless another provision in paragraph (b) of this section provides for an alternative fall protection measure.

*[URL="http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owalink.query_links?src_doc_type=STANDARDS&src_unique_file=1926_0502&src_anchor_name=1926.502(h)"]1926.502(h)[/URL]* "Safety monitoring systems." Safety monitoring systems [See 1926.501(b)(10) and 1926.502(k)] and their use shall comply with the following provisions:

*1926.502(h)(1)* The employer shall designate a competent person to monitor the safety of other employees and the employer shall ensure that the safety monitor complies with the following requirements:

*1926.502(h)(1)(i)* The safety monitor shall be competent to recognize fall hazards;

*1926.502(h)(1)(ii)* The safety monitor shall warn the employee when it appears that the employee is unaware of a fall hazard or is acting in an unsafe manner;

*1926.502(h)(1)(iii)* The safety monitor shall be on the same walking/working surface and within visual sighting distance of the employee being monitored;

*1926.502(h)(1)(iv)* The safety monitor shall be close enough to communicate orally with the employee; and

*1926.502(h)(1)(v)* The safety monitor shall not have other responsibilities which could take the monitor's attention from the monitoring function.

*1926.502(h)(2)* Mechanical equipment shall not be used or stored in areas where safety monitoring systems are being used to monitor employees engaged in roofing operations on low-slope roofs.

*1926.502(h)(3)* No employee, other than an employee engaged in roofing work [on low-sloped roofs] or an employee covered by a fall protection plan, shall be allowed in an area where an employee is being protected by a safety monitoring system.

*1926.502(h)(4)* Each employee working in a controlled access zone shall be directed to comply promptly with fall hazard warnings from safety monitors.


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

Grumpy said:


> If you can PROVE that you trained your crews with signed documentation showing that they have been provided with the equipment and siogned documentation showing they have been instructed on the use, you can get the citations thrown out or at least reduced.
> 
> One thing they will always ask is if you have a safety manual. If you don't that's an instant fine, so everyone should have one and have a signed document showing that the employees have received a copy.
> 
> ...


This is all good, but the minute you go in to an informal conference and present this to the OSHA Area Director, he's going to give you about a 30-40% reuction on the proposed fine.... The only way that you can get the fine annulated to $0.00 is if in adition to all that you mentioned above, you have a VERY VERY strict REPRIMAND system and you can show documented employee files where you gave warnings (2 times) and then finaly terminated employees for violation of your policy as you stated... If you cant show enforcement on your end, no matter if you have done training or not, your are screwed... You have to show that you are enforcing your own POLICY throught REPRIMANDS and TERMINATIONS... I tell everyone to institute a 3 strikes and your out Policy....


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## Excellent Roofing (Dec 30, 2011)

We do use fall protection. We use a pneumatic lifeline system by www.superanchor.com

http://www.superanchor.com/maxXLinePneumatic.html


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## hotrodo351 (Mar 18, 2012)

just bought the setup for doing work on two story tile roof repairs. im also 63 years old. i can see where you could get use to using it but have always wondered how it would of worked when doing new tiles roof, always getting it tangled in between the stack of tile. guess it can be figured out, would add quite a bit to the cost of the roof. but then if it saves someone from ending up in the hospital. in the 40 + years ive done roofs ive been lucky enough to never fall, came close to falling on a ladder by missing a step, but that only happened once, only take one time. what do you do while doing a elastomeric roof, get paint all over the rope. two story, yes, especially when you have a river front side that is three stories, but single story, well i really dont see the need for it. and if your falling off the roof then maybe roofing is not for you.


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## ReubenD (Sep 22, 2014)

My crew uses fall protection for anything over 1 story or steeper than 6/12. They purchase their gear from us and we pay them an extra stipend to cover cost of the purchase spread over 6 months. So long as they work 6 months will not actually cost them anything, and doesn't require them to come up with any cash upfront. Only way we lose badly is if they quit or get fired in the first week because we deduct the balance from their final pay if they leave before it is paid off. 

Doing it this way we can show insurance company and safety inspectors up to date fall safety equipment that fits and meets all guidelines. Apparently is a new safety class here that we are supposed to send our people to to get a training certificate as well though we are just getting details on ho w that is supposed to work and if it is going to be a requirement or a suggestion.


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## hotrodo351 (Mar 18, 2012)

i believe certain companies require there employes to wear it for insurance purposes.


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## ReubenD (Sep 22, 2014)

It is stipulated in insurance directly and indirectly. It is spelled out under safety equipment, but all insurance policies will have wording to the effect "IAW Osha regulations ...blah blah..." where they can deny claims for not following the appropriate regulations.


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## midmich (Dec 16, 2014)

Speaking of fall protection, has anyone seen this?

http://www.slator-usa.com/

I just learned about this and although we specialize in metal roofing, it looks like something any shingle or slate roofer might find useful.

What do you think? Useful or just a fad?


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## roofermann (Jul 7, 2012)

midmich said:


> Speaking of fall protection, has anyone seen this?
> 
> http://www.slator-usa.com/
> 
> ...


Looks good, be real handy getting materials from the bottom board up higher on those 10/12 plus jobs:thumbup:


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