# 5 Shingle repairs In 4 years on my house



## Oldfence

I have a 4 year old house, and every year I have to get shingles replaced when It gets a bit windy.
All the homes around me do fine...Why are mine coming off so easy?

When I look at them closely I see that the ends have curled up

Is there some kind of guarantee on these shingles?

Thanks for any advice

Ron


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## Oldfence

It seems they crack at the nail hole as well


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## tumpline

I would make a bet it an installation problem. Most likely your shingles are high nailed. In very windy situations these high nailed shingles have a tendency to blow off where as a properly nailed shingled roof should and usually does escape blow offs.
If your house is only 4 years old and houses around you were built at the same time and have no problems,then its most likely the installer.


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## Grumpy

one or a combination of the following: cheap shingles. High nailed. nailed too deep.


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## Ed the Roofer

Like Grumpy said, but also answer the following questions.....

Was it installed at a new construction site in the windy and dusty summertime?

Or,

Where they installed while it was raining or snowing?

The adhesive may not have been able to seal if the contact surface was contaminated, so add that to the incorrect nailing pattern potential and you should see this occuring more frequently each year.

If they blow off on multiple sections and in large enough quantities, it may be covered by your homeowners insurance policy.

Ed


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## Oldfence

My Homeowners policy Is a $1000 detuctable.
They came back and replace the missing shingles (1/2 a bundle) I just got the bill for $800 Bucks!
The roof was done In the winter and the shingles are CRC
If I was younger I would get up there myself and do them


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## Grumpy

CRC are crap and proof positive that we shouldn't be roofing with asphalt shingles in the winter. Like Ed said the seal strip can become contaminated and then will never stick. 

$800 for half a bundle? Let's see that'd be 4 man hours... $320. 1 bundle of shingles, nails, caulk (including markup)... $55. Mobilization... $150. Hmmm I need to raise my prices. I'd have been $525.


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## tumpline

I recently have been repairing several roofs that have had shingles blown off after a couple of winds storms we have had here in the past few months.
Almost all of these situations the roofs were less than 10 years old.
We have not found any particular shingle brand that seems prone to blow offs. We have been repairing, IKO, BP, CertainTeed,GAF, CRC etc.
Most of these roofs were installed in the winter and the sealing feature is nowhere near what it would be if they were installed in the dry hot roofing season. Almost all of the shingles that had blown away were not nailed in the proper nailing locations, high nailed, nails were 3-4 inches in from ends of shingles etc.
Just last week I got a call from a lady wanting a few shingles replaced, I ended up on the street for 2 days repairing several houses.
This company that charged you $ 800.00, have they done your previous roof repairs as well?


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## Oldfence

Grumpy said:


> CRC are crap and proof positive that we shouldn't be roofing with asphalt shingles in the winter. Like Ed said the seal strip can become contaminated and then will never stick.
> 
> $800 for half a bundle? Let's see that'd be 4 man hours... $320. 1 bundle of shingles, nails, caulk (including markup)... $55. Mobilization... $150. Hmmm I need to raise my prices. I'd have been $525.


I supplied the shingles!!!!! They sent 3 guys...3 hrs each

The shingles are curling all over the whole roof The type are CRC Renaissance-XL


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## Oldfence

tumpline said:


> I recently have been repairing several roofs that have had shingles blown off after a couple of winds storms we have had here in the past few months.
> Almost all of these situations the roofs were less than 10 years old.
> We have not found any particular shingle brand that seems prone to blow offs. We have been repairing, IKO, BP, CertainTeed,GAF, CRC etc.
> Most of these roofs were installed in the winter and the sealing feature is nowhere near what it would be if they were installed in the dry hot roofing season. Almost all of the shingles that had blown away were not nailed in the proper nailing locations, high nailed, nails were 3-4 inches in from ends of shingles etc.
> Just last week I got a call from a lady wanting a few shingles replaced, I ended up on the street for 2 days repairing several houses.
> This company that charged you $ 800.00, have they done your previous roof repairs as well?


Yes they have Its started the first year...Hey these guys are the original Installers of the roof

This Is the repair they did this time...Can you see the way the shingles have curled?


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## Oldfence

Oldfence said:


> Yes they have ............Its started the first year...Hey these guys are the original Installers of the roof


 /////////////////


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## Ed the Roofer

I hate to comment on other companies billing and business practices without getting the other side of the story, so I will not state that they should be doing the repairs on their own improper nailing patterns.

I would suggest that you negotiate a reduced fee for the warranty work.

I do not believe the 3rd man was necessary. He was sort of like an add-on to increase the repair bill.

Anything is negotiable.

How long was their workmanship warranty?

New construction is typically only One Year.

Ed


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## Oldfence

There not giving me any break on the price of the repairs....That's where I think There being unfair...I don't mind paying for the job but you can see the picture...800 bucks.
I looked at one full shingle that got ripped off and there's 2 nail hole within a inch of each other...thats where It ripped... just like me getting ripped...the nails on one shingle are right on the glue strip. I think I should get another roofer In and take a look at the roof...like you said
Hey guys thaks for listening to me vent...and thanks for any tips or advice


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## tinner666

Something isn't right. I know that if I had installed them correctly, I'd have repaired them for free. And I'd have have the man. rep. out there and raising cain about what it's doing to my rep. Has the rep been out? If I thought they were installed wrong, I'd go after the roofer and i sure wouldn't want the same guy on my roof again.

Everybody else was right on the other issue, so I abstain from commenting on those issues.


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## tinner666

Here's an example of the correct nail positioning.


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## Grumpy

3 men to replace a bundle of shingles? Well ok, OSHA says you should have 2 men on a job site but having that 2nd man is there just to satisfy osha requirements. I figured on man 1 hour on site, if I had to have 2 men on site, add another $320. 


Why would you PAY the schlocks who screwed up your roof in the first place to honor their responsibilities? If I had to pay, I'd pay anyone but the guys who screwed it up. Where can I get in on this deal? I should change my warranty to a lifetime time warranty where the customer supplies materials and I supply labor at the current rate. Sweet deal!


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## tinner666

"Why would you PAY the schlocks who screwed up your roof in the first place to honor their responsibilities? If I had to pay, I'd pay anyone but the guys who screwed it up. Where can I get in on this deal? I should change my warranty to a lifetime time warranty where the customer supplies materials and I supply labor at the current rate. Sweet deal!"

Well put. My clients wouldn't pay me endlessly like that.


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## Oldfence

These guys have been here 4 times before this event ...now they send 1 man with a ladder...he looks at the job for 1 hr and says no way he can do this by him self.
Ok 2 hrs later 2 other roofer roll In then boom bang they get the job done..and then they missed some that got ripped off...not down to the boards but missing singles...any way they said the boss would be calling me......No call I called him...get the blond at the desk...I'm guessing shes blond...long story... but no call from boss man...they just fire out a big bill...If I have t o pay this 800 bucks... I have no fire wood for this month...and still stuck with a bad roof


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## tumpline

You may want to contact CRC and see if you can get a rep out to see why the shingles are blowing off. 
In my opinion the Renaissance-XL is a over priced lower grade shingle, they had a spider cracking problem, apparently it's been improved or corrected with the newer GXL. I have only installed two roofs using the gxl and only because the customers insisted on using them and couldn't be convinced otherwise.
I agree the third guy was totally unnecessary, you should of asked them why so many guys and negotiated a lower price. If you feel that you are being taken advantage of, you may want to look toward getting another roofing company look after your roof.
But the bottom line is you should not need a roofing company come in and repair blown off shingles each time the wind blows a little hard. Find out why this is happening and hopefully take a course of action.


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## Grumpy

Oldfence said:


> These guys have been here 4 times before this event ...now they send 1 man with a ladder...he looks at the job for 1 hr and says no way he can do this by him self.
> Ok 2 hrs later 2 other roofer roll In then boom bang they get the job done..and then they missed some that got ripped off...not down to the boards but missing singles...any way they said the boss would be calling me......No call I called him...get the blond at the desk...I'm guessing shes blond...long story... but no call from boss man...they just fire out a big bill...If I have t o pay this 800 bucks... I have no fire wood for this month...and still stuck with a bad roof


 Do they have a signed contract with you? If not there is no legal binding method they can force you to pay this. I wouldn't pay it. 


Do you really spend $800 a month heating your house. and if so wouldn't an alternative fuel to fire wood be cheaper?


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## Oldfence

Grumpy said:


> Do they have a signed contract with you? If not there is no legal binding method they can force you to pay this. I wouldn't pay it.
> 
> 
> Do you really spend $800 a month heating your house. and if so wouldn't an alternative fuel to fire wood be cheaper?


No Signed contract:no:...800 a month sounds high...firewood plus other things.

I'm going to call In another roofer and get his opinion on this roof
Or give CRC a call


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## tumpline

Contact CRC, please let us know what response you get from them.
If you were a little closer I would take a look and give my thoughts on what may be causing this.


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## Grumpy

If you do call another roofer please make sure he is legitimate and please make sure that you value his time and pay him a fee for the inspection of your roof.


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## Oldfence

*How did they do?*

I walked around the house today,This Is what I found


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## Ed the Roofer

That company that did the repairs should be doing them for free as a warranty condition.

The higher missing shingle does not have but one visible nail.

The blow offs seem to point at their improper nailing pattern as the reason.

Hire a home inspector or a long time roofing contractor. Pay for a detailed forensics analysis of the roof, depicting if the shingles were properly nailed or not and look for other items that were not done correctly.

I doubt the manufacturer will ever come out to your home and they are not responsible for the installation, unless the contractor provided the roofing work via some certified contractor program, placing additional liability on the manufacturer, which still usually would not cover gross negligence in following specifications for proper nailing techniques.

Demand that you meet with the owner or manager of the roofing company after your inspection report is done and get it in writing, whether or not they will do the extensive repairs required.

Ed

Ed


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## tinner666

Even though you never answered my earlier question, I see the answer in that pic. The very lowest blown off shingle is nailed high. Several others up the roof are the same.

I'd say you have a legal suit there to get back all the money you've paid those painters, or bricklayers, to repair their mistakes. ALL that money!

AND, I'd sue the heck out of them so you can collect enough money so a roofing company can come in and replace your roof.

Take note of my earlier reply and question. The picture shows where the nails belong.


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## Grumpy

They supposedly repaired your roof and you found this mess only days later? Dude, do not write them that check! Send them a bill, if anything. Like Tinner said they may be painters or brick layers, but roofers they aint.


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## Oldfence

tumpline said:


> I recently have been repairing several roofs that have had shingles blown off after a couple of winds storms we have had here in the past few months.
> Almost all of these situations the roofs were less than 10 years old.
> We have not found any particular shingle brand that seems prone to blow offs. We have been repairing, IKO, BP, CertainTeed,GAF, CRC etc.
> Most of these roofs were installed in the winter and the sealing feature is nowhere near what it would be if they were installed in the dry hot roofing season. Almost all of the shingles that had blown away were not nailed in the proper nailing locations, high nailed, nails were 3-4 inches in from ends of shingles etc.
> Just last week I got a call from a lady wanting a few shingles replaced, I ended up on the street for 2 days repairing several houses.
> This company that charged you $ 800.00, have they done your previous roof repairs as well?


They have done all the repairs...I found a almost full shingle....It still had the clear plastic strip on It

I called Crc...hoping they would come out and take a look...But they want a copy of the contract with the roofer.
I don't have that...That was done through the builder. But from what we see Here Its a Install problem anyway.
How long should the workmanship of this roof be guaranteed for?


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## Grumpy

In my area new construction is a minimum of 1 year. You said it's 5 or 6 years now... Call your builder, your contract was with him anyways. You can sue the builder and the roofer for negligence, you paid for a properly installed roof but did not recieve it. There is no warranty/guarantee statute of limitations on negligence. 

The plastic strip probably isn't meant to be removed anymore.


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## Oldfence

Grumpy said:


> In my area new construction is a minimum of 1 year. You said it's 5 or 6 years now... Call your builder, your contract was with him anyways. You can sue the builder and the roofer for negligence, you paid for a properly installed roof but did not recieve it. There is no warranty/guarantee statute of limitations on negligence.
> 
> The plastic strip probably isn't meant to be removed anymore.


Grumpy, I called the builder yesterday morning, He still has not got back to me.
But the roofing boss Is coming out on Monday...hopefully he will get up on the roof and see what kind of work his men do


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## tumpline

Grumpy is right plastic strip isn't meant to be removed. You should have received some documentation when you purchased your house stating warranty period and conditions.
If it was reputable builder I would think they would be very interested in what is happening and offering you at least some direction on where and how to proceed. If they still have a working relationship with the roofer I am sure they will contact them and possibly instruct them to correct it.
If the picture you posted is any indication of the type of work that the roofing company does I would be a little hesitant an allowing them perform any future work.
Hate to see anyone having to head to the courts to resolve an issue like this, generally the lawyers are the only winners once all is said and done.


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## OUTLAW

Looks to me like those shingles aren't sealing. Not to say the roofer did or didn't install correctly. 

Who the hell is CRC. Sounds like some discount BS.

Maybe you should go up on the roof and see how easy (or hard) it is to lift those shingles.

Every body on here seems so quick to blame the roofer. Maybe he had to install the junk shingles that the GC bought. 

I looked at a house that i roofed 9 years ago for a tight-ass builder. He insisted that he bought the shingles. A dozen are blown off. Also the flashing has come loose from the wall. His brick mason did a shoddy job mixing the mortar and he wouldn't pay me enough to cut a reglet. Is it my fault? I don't think so.


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## Oldfence

OUTLAW said:


> Looks to me like those shingles aren't sealing. Not to say the roofer did or didn't install correctly.
> 
> Who the hell is CRC. Sounds like some discount BS.
> 
> Maybe you should go up on the roof and see how easy (or hard) it is to lift those shingles.
> 
> Every body on here seems so quick to blame the roofer. Maybe he had to install the junk shingles that the GC bought.
> 
> I looked at a house that i roofed 9 years ago for a tight-ass builder. He insisted that he bought the shingles. A dozen are blown off. Also the flashing has come loose from the wall. His brick mason did a shoddy job mixing the mortar and he wouldn't pay me enough to cut a reglet. Is it my fault? I don't think so.


The General Contractor never put the nails In...The roofers did

On a 12/12 do you put the same amount of nails as a 5/12 roof...just wondering


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## tinner666

The plastic strip is from the shingle backs. It's only purpose is to keep the shingles from sealing together in the packages. It may also give the shingle some strength since it's in the nail line too.

Outlaw. The proof is in the pictures. Many missing nails. Nails way too high. Both fall on the roofer. It's his way of telling the manufacturer " I don't care about YOUR warranty, I'll do it this way, voiding your warranty, and cover those issues myself!"

Show the GC and or Roof Boss this thread.


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## OUTLAW

Oldfence said:


> The General Contractor never put the nails In...The roofers did
> 
> On a 12/12 do you put the same amount of nails as a 5/12 roof...just wondering


 
Most shingles require the same nailing pattern for 5/12 as 12/12. It is only when you get to a mansard that the nailing pattern increases.

I understand that the roofer put the nails in, not the manufactor. If the shingles are not sealing down than that is not the roofers fault, its the manufactors.

I don't know what the required nailing pattern is for CRC. I have never seen them before. Therefore, I am not going to jump in and blame the roofer.


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## OUTLAW

tinner666 said:


> The plastic strip is from the shingle backs. It's only purpose is to keep the shingles from sealing together in the packages. It may also give the shingle some strength since it's in the nail line too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Outlaw. The proof is in the pictures. Many missing nails. Nails way too high. Both fall on the roofer. It's his way of telling the manufacturer " I don't care about YOUR warranty, I'll do it this way, voiding your warranty, and cover those issues myself!"
> 
> Show the GC and or Roof Boss this thread.[uote/q]
> 
> Maybe, my eyesight isn't as sharp as the rest of you guys. I can't make a qualified judgement baed on the photos and the fact that I am not famalir whith CRC.With Certainteed, the plastic strip is also encoded with info about the shingle's date of manufacture, what plant they came from, what lot # and so forth.


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## Ed the Roofer

OUTLAW said:


> I don't know what the required nailing pattern is for CRC. I have never seen them before. Therefore, I am not going to jump in and blame the roofer.


CRC shingles are handles by Menards in our area and the only CON-tractors that I have seen use them are the out of town Storm Chasers.

http://www.canroof.com/

It is another fine Canadian Shingle, with an even lesser reputation in these parts than IKO.

Ed


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## OUTLAW

Wow! a lesser reputation that IKO. I didn't know there was such a thing.

Once again, I believe those shingles may not be sealing down properly.


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## Oldfence

You may be right about the shingles not sealing down properly But...What do You do about that at this stage of the game?
And Isnt It the roofers responsibility to make sure that they do seal down?
I'm a long time tradesman as well, and I know how to give the customer a finished product...Its my responsibility to make sure you get a Fence Installed properly.
And If I cant provide that for you ...I clearly will not do the job.

Fencer


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## Oldfence

Roofing Boss Is comming here today...I wonder If he will get right up on he roof and lift shingles ...and I wonder what his explantion will be


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## Grumpy

OUTLAW said:


> Looks to me like those shingles aren't sealing. Not to say the roofer did or didn't install correctly.
> 
> Who the hell is CRC. Sounds like some discount BS.
> 
> Maybe you should go up on the roof and see how easy (or hard) it is to lift those shingles.
> 
> Every body on here seems so quick to blame the roofer. Maybe he had to install the junk shingles that the GC bought.
> 
> I looked at a house that i roofed 9 years ago for a tight-ass builder. He insisted that he bought the shingles. A dozen are blown off. Also the flashing has come loose from the wall. His brick mason did a shoddy job mixing the mortar and he wouldn't pay me enough to cut a reglet. Is it my fault? I don't think so.


 It's the roofers fault for installing crap and not covering his hind sides by stating it's crap. Ok it is crap, and no tradesman warrants materials. However the pictures obviously show poor workmanship. 

In regards to your example, I would say yes it is absoloutely your fault UNLESS you had documentation stating "I told you so." For example if the builder didn't want the reglet he'd have gotten an option on his proposal with the base price for what he did want and the warranty I was willing to give and then the optional flashing upgrade with the upgraded warranty. We're not roofing CONTRACTORS for nothing, use your documentation to CYA. We discussed this in a thread about skylights that i started, exact same principal. Cover your @$$. 

But blow offs have nothing to do with the flashing, if the blow off was your fault in the nailing pattern that goes without saying. If you did it properly according to manufactuer instructions and it still blew off, then your hands are covered. I don't think anyone expects any roofer to warrant the roofer's materials but in these pictures it was the roofer's fault IMO. Cold wather, high nails, not enough nails... 3 strikes.


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## Grumpy

Oldfence said:


> The General Contractor never put the nails In...The roofers did
> 
> On a 12/12 do you put the same amount of nails as a 5/12 roof...just wondering


4 nails minimum in a 5/12 6 nails minimum in a 12/12 or steeper. That's our way of doing it, and I do know at some point the manufacturer requires 6 nails at steepr inclines. We just choose to do it on 12/12 instead of mansards like the manufacturers require. Infact I think that 6 nails are also required on shingles if you want the hurricane warranty (110mph).


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## tinner666

I'm in suspense on what the Boss had to say. :jester:


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## Oldfence

tinner666 said:


> I'm in suspence on what the Boss had to say. :jester:


Hey Tinner...Boss man Will be here today...He called yesterday to ask If he could change It for today...No Problem I said.
He sounds like a nice guy...Hopefully he will try to make things right with this roofing job they did.
They Have on there heading 
"Your Shingling Experts For Over 3 Generations" :jester:


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## tinner666

:shifty: The suspense is just killlliiiinnnngggggg ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :laughing:


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## Oldfence

Boss Roofer came and had a look, And he saying Its the poor grade of shingles that Charleston Homes provided...The roofer cut the repair In half and said his boys would be around to fix that repair that they missed for free.
I tried to contact Charleston homes (Builder) and they have not returned my call

Ron


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## Grumpy

This is another reason why NOT to work for builder provided material.

I once got called to do a job for a contractor I had done some solar work with in the past. They were building a "simple 500 square foot addition, and we already got the shingles." When I got there it was anything but simple. The existing roof was 3 tab, they had bought architecturals. There was a valley that dead ended against the wall at a chimney and requires some custom flashing and pan details. The $750 just for labor jumped to $3k for labor and material and they never returned my call after that. BTW the shingles were CRC from menards.


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## tinner666

He should have cut it 100% and done the next one free too. Did he have any comment about the improper nailing several of us noticed and commented on? (Which did VOID any potential warrantee you may have had with the shingle maunfacturer)


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## Oldfence

tinner666 said:


> He should have cut it 100% and done the next one free too. Did he have any comment about the improper nailing several of us noticed and commented on? (Which did VOID any potential warrantee you may have had with the shingle maunfacturer)


 
He told me that there was 4 nails In that shingle

Also he told me that there are houses that are 10 yrs old ,with the CRC shingles that need to be re shingled


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## tinner666

Oldfence said:


> He told me that there was 4 nails In that shingle
> 
> Also he told me that there are houses that are 10 yrs old ,with the CRC shingles that need to be re shingled


4 could hold them if the 4 were in the right spot.
Compare the locations of the nails in your pics and my pic. His were nailed high. Evidently to insure he would have continous work in the area as the roofs keep failing. Not a bad idea if he can get away with it. Works for him.


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## Grumpy

Yeah there were 4 nails in the shingle... all right next to each other and were not in the nail line.


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## Oldfence

Oldfence said:


> I walked around the house today,This Is what I found


Grumpy are you talking about the lower repair they did?

Or the shingle that only 1 nail Is visable (Above)


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## OUTLAW

Seems that I am in disagreement with my peers on this one Oldfence. I will not pass judgement on your roofer just from thoses few pics. Too hard to tell unless I went on the roof. But I can tell you this. If those shingles are not sealing properly, I dont give a fat baby's behind how many nails are in the shingles, THEY WILL BLOW OFF.

Ya know, I just looked at the pics again. I've got to say, by what I can see, they are nailed more than enough. Just looking at the pics, it appears the shingles are comming apart.

Maybe you should go after the Manufactor or the builder.


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## Oldfence

The roofer Boss also told me "Good luck with the CRC shingles" He had no luck through the years trying to get a refund,Too much BS CRC actually wants you to take off a bunch of shingles and return them to Manufacture for starters.

The Builder, Charleston Homes Still has not returned my calls


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## Grumpy

I'm talking about one of the pictures, there were missing shingles near to a valley. This was part of the original installation. 

Removing the shingles and sending them back is common in a shingle warranty claim for any manufacturer.


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## Grumpy

OUTLAW said:


> Seems that I am in disagreement with my peers on this one Oldfence. I will not pass judgement on your roofer just from thoses few pics. Too hard to tell unless I went on the roof. But I can tell you this. If those shingles are not sealing properly, I dont give a fat baby's behind how many nails are in the shingles, THEY WILL BLOW OFF.
> 
> Ya know, I just looked at the pics again. I've got to say, by what I can see, they are nailed more than enough. Just looking at the pics, it appears the shingles are comming apart.
> 
> Maybe you should go after the Manufactor or the builder.


 True maybe the shingles didn't seal. Neither of us knows that for sure, although it is a possibility. However we do know from the images shown that the installation was improper. That much we do know for sure. 

Perhaps both contractor and manufacturer are equally to blame, however the contractor for sure has a portion of blame no less than 50%, based on the photos showing improper installation. I don't know what pics you're looking at because you seem to be seeing completely different photos than the rest of the forum.


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## Oldfence

I should get up on that roof and lift some shingles and take some pictures
The pics that I provided are not all that great...And I understand Its tough for professional tradesmen like you guys to make a call without seeing the whole picture
I will get some photos that are more clear...In all counts I appreciate all your help on this guys

Old Fencer


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## Oldfence

By the way the roofers never came back to do that repair for me.....He told me they would be there the next day...thats last Tuesday today Is Sunday


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## Grumpy

If youc an lift some shingles without a pry bar then they aren't stuck. That's a steep roof, please be careful if you try to get up there.


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## ronbryanroofing

*Follow Procedure*

Old Fence,
Catchy title. I recommend you stop wasting your energy with that Roofer, for now. Open your phone book (older phonebook the better) and pick out a smaller ad that reads repairs and new roofs. The season has not really started yet so it should be good service. 
Hire them for collecting your samples to ship off to the Manufacturer and repair the new sample spots. 
Please, be far and honest- I mean pay the man for his time not a "promise for a if and when" you get a real settlement.

Personally I think its deceitful to use the Roofers time on the hope it may turn into a job later on just to be bid out, kind of like you waiting around for the Boss man's workers return.


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## Grumpy

Hey if the roofer's willing to do it, that's his mistake. I agree with you that it's not fair to give your expertise for free but your and I see to be the exception to the rule. Seems like most roofers love their craft so much... I mean why else would they be working for zero profit?


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## ronbryanroofing

Well to climb all over a 12/12 and carefully removing damaged shingles that deserves a fee. 

I want every job I go to,otherwise I wouldn't go. I would certainly get the "mislead" feeling if I'm hanging off a roof and the HO tells me I'm their Contractor when the settlement comes in. 

Funny you mentioned zero profit, I refuse to work for people poorer than me.

If Fence Post called me with this recurring problem I would give him inspect the damages and offer this advise. 

1. Call your local supply store where Builder buys materials inform them of the problem and seek local rep for shingle manufacturer and Contact him/ her in writing along with Builder and Roofer- of recurring problem somewhere in the wording drop "lemon law" and request Warranty Packet. Also, mention that roof is being scheduled for re roof at earliest convenience and any site inspection should be arranged ASAP as reroof is scheduled and they will be Invoiced.

2. Pick a different brand of equal value/ warranty and schedule in a new roof and install.

3. Forward Invoice for Completed roof to Manufacturer with a Due now, work is complete.

If Old Fence Receives anything less than full payment local Small Claims Court for Contract Amount.


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## Oldfence

I'm still around ......and ya got me thinking now


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## Oldfence

Grumpy said:


> If youc an lift some shingles without a pry bar then they aren't stuck. That's a steep roof, please be careful if you try to get up there.


The roof has many different pitchs...Its not all 12/12

Grumpy by the way ...the roofer did come back and fix that last repair for free


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## ronbryanroofing

Is there no felt under those shingles? Or is that just a spot he missed during roofing?


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## Oldfence

Theres Is no felt...just bare decking


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## ronbryanroofing

Where is Newmarket? Snow region? What would a builder be thinking not properly drying in a roof with underlayment. Shingle blow off in a winter installation is probable so why skip any type of protection?


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## tumpline

I think he is located in Newmarket Ontario, truth is most of the new houses going up in Ontario do not use underlayment. You can clearly see this when sections of their high nailed... late season shingle installations blow off leaving decking exposed to the elements.




ronbryanroofing said:


> Where is Newmarket? Snow region? What would a builder be thinking not properly drying in a roof with underlayment. Shingle blow off in a winter installation is probable so why skip any type of protection?


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## Eric the Roofer

Comment about shingles prone to blowing off: I, along with some other contractors in my area, have experienced several problems with BP over the years. It is indeed rare, however it's with BP that we've had the most material warrantee issues.

Quick note about GAF/ELK and IKO: we've noticed that their seals stick well enough sometimes to even compensate for a poor installation. Some roofs I've seen should have had blow offs...but the good stick factor of these manufacturers was enough to compensate for poor wormkanship...good thing too!


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## Oldfence

ronbryanroofing said:


> Where is Newmarket? Snow region? What would a builder be thinking not properly drying in a roof with underlayment. Shingle blow off in a winter installation is probable so why skip any type of protection?


Yes Ontario Canada.....windy here today

I hired a new roofer to fix /replace that bad steel sheet on the barn...but Idont think he will go up today

Anyway when he does come I'm going to get him to look at the house roof and see what he has to say

I see a few more pcs of shingles in the eves

Fence


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## ronbryanroofing

How goes the battle?


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## MGP Roofing

If you can, put up a better pic of the curling. Does the roof have underlay beneath the shingles? Doesn't look like it in the last photo.


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