# Two layer terror



## roofing for Jesus (Jun 6, 2010)

I did a small 10 sq roof two days ago thinking it would be a good roof to break my little brother in. Just the back side of a 4 12 house that had black shingles on the front and white on the back. We start the tear off and found someone had laid over the old shingles on the back side of the house. Always a nice surprise. My brother got a good taste of what roofing was all about that day.


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

Why was that such a hard tear-off for him?

Were the shingles sealed down to the decking or some Ice and Water shield?

Ed


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

2 layer tear offs are an every day thing. Not much harder to tear off two than it is to tear off one. 

As for the suprise extra layer, who paid for the loss?


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

I just finished up a 12/12 pitch roof with an estimated 3 layer tear-off that actually had 5 layers on it. I do have a clause in my proposal that deals with the additional costs per layer per square foot included.

Ed


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

Ed the Roofer said:


> I just finished up a 12/12 pitch roof with an estimated 3 layer tear-off that actually had 5 layers on it. I do have a clause in my proposal that deals with the additional costs per layer per square foot included.
> 
> Ed


 If ya care to share Ed? How do you word that?


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

I could phatom a guess...

"Tear off 2 layer of existing asphalt shingles and dispose. Any additionl layers of roofing hidden or unseen will carry additional charges at a rate of $x.00 per layer per square foot." 

I have always been on the fence about having a clause like this one. Truth be told a hidden layer has happened to me a few times since I started on the sales side of things. I saw a job the other day that was 3 layers, but the last roofer cut back the starter before adding the 3rd layer. The insurance adjuster insisted it was 2 layers, I showed him the hump in the shingles about 1' back from the edge where the roofer cut the shingles. He lifted the edge of the shingles again and still insisted it was two layers. I took him to the gable and showed him the edge and he finally accepted that it was 3 layers. Had I not seen the hump, i may not have checked the gable and I would have likley been eating that 3rd layer. 

I am hesitant to add any more clauses to my proposal. There is a limit of what can be added before it looks like something you'd sign when you buy a house. When I had salesmen the hidden layers would come out of their commission. For me to make that mistake once every 3 or 4 years... I can absorb and chalk it up to education/tuition.


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

Grumpy said:


> I could phatom a guess...
> 
> *"Tear off 2 layer of existing asphalt shingles and dispose. Any additionl layers of roofing hidden or unseen will carry additional charges at a rate of $x.00 per layer per square foot."*
> 
> ...


Precisely how I have it worder Grumpy. I think you have one of my copies though, plus you have known me for quite some time now, so you should know my style for the most part.

Ed


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

LOL yes I do have one of your proposals, but I just made that up on the fly. I haven't looked at the proposal since you sent it to me 2 years ago.


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

Here it is, exactly like you wrote, LOL.

If there are any additional layers, then add fifty cents per square foot per layer, which includes all tear-off labor and dump truck fees. 

Ed


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## 223ccr (Jun 12, 2010)

I guess you guys know that if this is an insurance claim, and they allowed you two layers and you discover a third during tear off, That the insurance company is obligated to pay for the third layer. you will never have to chalk it up to live and learn.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Sure, but who in their right mind does insurance work? I'm getting sick of the ammount of insurance work being discussed in the roofing forums over the last few months. Don't peope know how to make an HONEST buck anymore?


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

We dont get ANY insurance jobs here..just H/O & GC's


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## AcclaimExteriors.com (Jul 5, 2010)

Hey Grumpy you don't get storms in Chicago????? LOL I deal with Insurance co's all the time and do work for individuals as well. The worst I saw was a roof that the Ins co said had 3 layers when in fact it had 6 layers of shingles plus shake. Took 2 30 yd dumpsters full to the top for only 18 sq roof. Oh yeah and we of course had to put up sheething. They didnt' want to pay for that until I argued that we had no nailable surface so they gave in and paid that too. 

Ins co's are a pain in the ass you just have to know how to deal with them. Yeah we get lots of hail storms in Iowa and that is a part of our business.


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## roofing for Jesus (Jun 6, 2010)

My business is still new. I'll take any work I can get.


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## gooflyroofer (Aug 14, 2010)

2layer or three used to be norm around here now maybe 1 in20 think god for that


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## Ridgewalker (Aug 12, 2010)

Overlay installation were the norm around here very little tearoffs so the layers were up there 3-5 were very comon. I know because after loma prieta earthquake law stated you can only reroof over a existing roof layer if you all ready had two layers a complete tear off was needed. Alot of damage was caused by the houses being top heavy. Now you see them seldom.


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## MGP Roofing (Mar 23, 2010)

It used to be common here to lay decras over old longrun iron. A PITA when you get asked to fix a leak in the roof, leak may be in the ridge but shows at the bottom of a valley in the lower layer, or anywhere else, only way to find is to tear off if the cause isn't obvious.
Will post a pic when I next see one.


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