# Re-enforced EPDM



## djd76 (Mar 10, 2009)

Started a re-enforced EPDM roof today and opened the first three rolls ,laid them out, let them relax for an hour but could not get them to lay flat. There are wrinkles in the seaming area and in the middle of the sheet, any one ever experience this? I am afraid we are going to have difficulty seaming these sheets. The roof is 045" fabric re-enforced mechanically attached system. I have used this material before and when unrolled it always laid flat.


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## Pie in the Sky (Dec 21, 2011)

Got any photos?

Not sure what your timeframe is but if you cant install it properly send it back. Were the wrinkles on the roll now they wont relax out? also who is the manufactuter?


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## 1985gt (Dec 21, 2010)

Glue it down the wrinkles will come right out. :thumbup:


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## djd76 (Mar 10, 2009)

Here is a pic of one of the rolls. Can not get it to lay flat. Glueing it down not an option unless i want to lose my a$$, we're talking 39 10 x 100 rolls, and I did not bid it that way. Wrinkles were on the roll , the manufacturer is Genflex.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

What did Genflex say about it?


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## TechGuy (Jun 12, 2012)

Where are those safety lines?:whistling:


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

TechGuy said:


> Where are those safety lines?:whistling:


That's what everyone says when ever anyone shows a picture without safety lines. However safety lines are not necessary if you have a competent safety monitor on a roof section of 50 square or less.


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## djd76 (Mar 10, 2009)

Genflex got back with me yesterday. They said the condition is from the material being rolled up uneven at the factory . They want me to save the ID tags and document any repairs and extra manhours this condition causes.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Good for them. I'm Genflex certified and I'll say that for the most part they have taken care of me. Once I had to fight to get some money from them on a warranty repair, but that was partly due to my own ignorance of their processes. I've seen them pay for warranty claims that obviously were not their fault.


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## TechGuy (Jun 12, 2012)

Grumpy said:


> That's what everyone says when ever anyone shows a picture without safety lines. However safety lines are not necessary if you have a competent safety monitor on a roof section of 50 square or less.


39 rolls covers more than 50 square.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

But it's also by the section, not the total roof. One section may be 20 squares and another section 40 etc...


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## 1985gt (Dec 21, 2010)

Whats up with the guy who is wearing shorts? I wonder how many commercial contractors allow this. Our company hasn't allowed shorts since like the beginning of the 90's.


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## TechGuy (Jun 12, 2012)

Bottom line is the job looks like a mess and an accident ready to happen.

Flags take an hour to setup and very amateur not to use them.

If that was one of my jobs it would have a raptor rail system the entire way around it.


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## 1985gt (Dec 21, 2010)

Raptor rails are nice, but if there is no parapet they are time consuming to set up. I'd have set up flag lines if over 50' x 50' if not safety monitors would have been used. Probably would have set up a couple of sections of guard rail and base plates around the hoisting/staging/dumping area(s). If worse came to worse we would have put up a raptor cart and tied them off. 

The point is the guy is going to do what he is going to do. If he is in fact of a OSHA violation it will only be a matter of time before he gets caught, if he is not then so be it. You don't get to be a long standing roofing company by cutting corners. 

We all can sit here and spew about what we would or wouldn't have done or we could just answer his question.

Now if his question would have been "does this look like a properly set up job site?" then by all means fire away, heck you could have even just said "what are you doing for safety precautions" if you were in fact that interested. Or were you just trying to be all high and mighty on us? Just a friendly word. When your new to a site and you spew stuff like that oh and the I only pay 62 a square for PVC because we are awesome, you come off as arrogant. You won't get too far around here with that attitude. Most of the members who post regularly have been around then industry long enough to know better.

Sorry if that came off a bit strong but its Friday, the phone hasn't stop ringing and I was trying to enjoy my 10 min lunch. We finally got some rain, bad for some good for us we got 4 or so inches and some 60 mph winds. 

Feel free to post a bit about your self in the introductions so we can get to know you better.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

We use warning lines and tie off when not working within the lines. I only mentioned about the safety monitor because I've had people pick apart pics I've posted in the past with the exact same comments and they were like 20 square roofs we were working on and the first comment is "where are the safety lines?" 

I'll be straight up honest. I see no point in fall protection on a flat roof unless you are working on the edge. The lines and everything else are a waste of time and we only do it to avoid getting a ticket.


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## djd76 (Mar 10, 2009)

I want to thank all for the replys to my question and I am happy with the manufacturers response to this issue.

I would also like to thank those of you who are concerned about the saftey issues in the pic. I was not going to respond , but I hate to miss an opportunity to pass on some life lessons to those who I feel could benefit from them. Let me clarify some items for you.

1. The two roof edges you see in the pic are a 12" and 36" step down to the adjacent roof sections ,respectively. I did not see a need for fall protection on those sides. The other two sides, not visible in the pic are open to the ground (24'), and we do have flagging and stands on those sides.

2.The worker you see, in the shorts ,is not a member of our crew. He is a blocklayer working on parapet repairs who walked over to ask my guys a question about the project. I do not have control over his wardrobe decisions.

I have been in the commecial roofing business since 1985 and have had many visits from OSHA. My only violation involved having a ladder at the wrong angle and and too short of a section extending above roof line. In all that time I have had only one guy fall, and that guy was me. I went through the lone fiberglass panel on a corrugated metal roof. The panel was tared over and indistinguishable from the metal panels. My fault, I was measurung the job and should have been walking on the sections over the purlins. 

I learned a long time ago not to ASS/U/ME, because you make an A$$ of U and ME. I understand the need some have to be critical of others. Most of these types of folks need to do this because of their own insecurcitys and lack of self confidence/esteem. The critics feel better about themselves if they can make others appear inferior. Judging others and drawing conclusions before you are in posession of all the facts to make that decison is common in many people, but it does not make it any less immature and irresponsible. In our efforts to show off our experience, knowledge,morals,attributes..etc, we sometimes rush to judgement, when we should step back, think, and ask if there is more to this situation than what I am seeing or what I have heard from others. There are always two sides to every story and you rarely know the whole truth.


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## 1985gt (Dec 21, 2010)

Good to know! Also, if the block layer was working for you under contract you have the right to tell him no shorts on your jobs. I only asked about the short because you see a lot shingler wear shorts (at least around here) and even a few commercial contractors. This is just odd to me since we have to wear long pants always.



Grumpy said:


> I'll be straight up honest. I see no point in fall protection on a flat roof unless you are working on the edge. The lines and everything else are a waste of time and we only do it to avoid getting a ticket.


I think a lot of OSHA's rules are out of line, but like you we do it to avoid a ticket or when we actually feel there is a safety issue at hand.


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## djd76 (Mar 10, 2009)

1985gt said:


> Good to know! Also, if the block layer was working for you under contract you have the right to tell him no shorts on your jobs. I only asked about the short because you see a lot shingler wear shorts (at least around here) and even a few commercial contractors. This is just odd to me since we have to wear long pants always.
> 
> 
> 
> I think a lot of OSHA's rules are out of line, but like you we do it to avoid a ticket or when we actually feel there is a safety issue at hand.


Not my sub, we are all working under a GC, but thanks for the info.


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## 1985gt (Dec 21, 2010)

No worry. Odd how places are different. Any of the major GC's around here wouldn't allow that. Plus they all would be wearing hard hats .


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## TechGuy (Jun 12, 2012)

Grumpy said:


> I'll be straight up honest. I see no point in fall protection on a flat roof unless you are working on the edge. The lines and everything else are a waste of time and we only do it to avoid getting a ticket.


At first I didn't think so either. Then I as I spent more time on the roof with the guys I realized what happens.

Sure your seasoned guys can probably work just fine without. The problem is the new guys or the grunts that get two hours of sleep and aren't on the ball. Let's face it. That's generally half the crew.


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