# Ice Damming caused by failure to finish repairs before winter



## primaldiva (8 d ago)

I live near Leavenworth, WA at 2000 ft on eastern slopes of the North Cascades. Snow load at my property is 125psi. My house is about 14 years old, built with engineered trusses and has a 50 year warranty ASC 22 ga Skyline standing seam hidden fastener roof. The roof has 4 different pitches and one gable on the SE side of house (see pic) Snow sheds pretty well on roof except in the valley of the gables, where it tends to gather until Spring. My attic floor is well insulated (according to 2 inspectors) and the attic well-ventilated. Right now it is 32 degrees F outside, 70 inside, and my remote attic thermometer is reading 37 in the attic. I have lived here for 7 years (second owner) and I have never had any issues with ice damming until this past few weeks.

Last season the extreme weather (we got 60" of snow in 24 hours) did pull the flashing off the gable and it was hanging out 2 feet from the building all summer (see pics) it took a while for insurance to pay...I got a quote from local roofer ("Dave") who had done work for me in the past on another building. The quote was for roof repairs for the flashing and adding snow brakes to try and prevent the severe and dangerous roof avalaches we get here. The snow brakes were necessary to prevent an entire roof replacement as another roofer had used stupidly short nails to install snow brakes and the first snow ripped them out sideways and left some nice gashes in my roof. They had been patched with epoxy as a short term bandaid.

The current roofer, Dave, provided a written quote and promised me in writing (via text) that he would do my roof before the rainy season started. He then asked me for a 50% deposit to order materials which I tendered. The repair did not happen despite me reminding him of what we had agreed upon, and this past fall the snow started in early November.

After back and forth texts, he showed up on December 17th (!) when there was quite a bit of snow on the roof and the gable valleys were encased in ice. For some reason, he thought it would be a great idea to install the snow brakes on the intact NW facing roof, and he installed 1 row of snowbrakes on the SE roof. He then abruptly took off, dumped the rest of the metal on my porch, and he has not come back.

As you can imagine, I got horrible ice damming which created ice ponds on my second floor deck and is causing cracks in my kitchen ceiling, postponing a planned tile install. I called Dave to ask him:

1. why he did not do the roof repair to the flashing first as it was leaking exactly under those 2 areas, and it did not make sense to install brakes which would encourage the snow and ice to stay on my roof when there was a repairs needed to flashing causing open areas for ice to penetrate. (the flashing area is covered in icicles presently)
2. when was he planning on returning to finish the job
3. what could he do to help mitigate the water damage which was caused by the repair not being done

He spent the phone call deflecting and saying that "everyone is dealing with ice damming now" and that he is so busy he has no idea when he can come back but it might be a good idea for me to hire someone to shovel off my roof! He then tried to upsell me on a new roof. There is no way my roof can be shoveled off now unless I get a team who has access to a hydraulic lift, said another GC. Too dangerous. There are feet of snow on my roof, the ground, etc. Dave blamed the ice damming on my "poor roof installation" in the first place (my roof has been inspected half a dozen times, by insurance companies who had an incentive to tell me my roof install was a problem and they all said it was fine) and it was likely due to the person who built the house not using ice-guard, which he then admitted he had no idea if that was the case. I know the guy who built the house and I know he used ice-guard. How high he use it, I have no idea, but I think code is a few rows out here. Terry, the builder, did everything by the book.

I went up in my attic with another GC yesterday and confirmed that areas of water penetration were confined to the 2 gable valleys and initiatied from the low point and wicked up along the edge. Seems like a pretty cut and dried case to me, that the damming was caused by the flashing not being repaired. Why would Dave install snow brakes on half a roof (leading to roof imbalance) and certainly why would he do that before he fixed the flashing???

If I choose to file a claim against his bond or insurance, I do need to give Dave a chance to rectify the situation. The problem I have is this guy wants to claim ZERO accountabliity for the fact that he took my deposit, promised me (in writing) he would have it completed before the weather and then strung me along so I did not hire anyone else. I don't think there really is any way to complete this repair before winter is over and thus I am risking further damage to my home and potentially a big insurance claim. Its a completely avoidable nightmare. He should have told me he was way too busy and to hire someone else, since I had an urgent need to get the repair done.

Any thoughts on how I can try and work through this with Dave without litigation? I have 30 years experience in commercial and residential construction, I know there are ALWAYS challenges on any job, and what separates the pros from the fly-by-nights are the way they behave when problems occur. I am hoping this is resolvable, but with the weather as wet as this winter is, I have my doubts.

Any thoughts from you professionals? Thanks in advance, Andrea


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## roofermann (Jul 7, 2012)

Contact his insurance, it's what he pays the premiums for.


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## primaldiva (8 d ago)

roofermann said:


> Contact his insurance, it's what he pays the premiums for.


Ugh, that's what I feared. He actually contacted me this morning to see if he could "finish next week" and he bought one side of gable trim, not the other. I hate to blow this up into an insurance claim in a small town where everyone knows everyone; I will speak with him first. The issue is with the weather (constantly snowing) I do not believe there is any way to complete the repairs now properly and frankly I get nervous having him up there in icy conditions.

If it were your house, would you mitigate the penetration until the Spring somehow and then schedule a proper evaluation/repair? Or just call the insurance and let them decide what to do? 

Thanks for your input. Andrea


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## roofermann (Jul 7, 2012)

I'd fix it myself, but roofing is my trade. Giving the guy a chance at making you whole before involving ins might be less of a hassle and buy you some goodwill.


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## primaldiva (8 d ago)

roofermann said:


> I'd fix it myself, but roofing is my trade. Giving the guy a chance at making you whole before involving ins might be less of a hassle and buy you some goodwill.


I am definitely going to try. Do you think if the ice and snow was somehow removed the repair could adequately be done during the winter? The underlying supports (the painted white part in the photos) is saturated and swollen now. I wish I could put a bandaid on it and then see what needs replacing once it is dry. But I don't want to incur more damage it's going to be a long winter. Its a conundrum.


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## primaldiva (8 d ago)

primaldiva said:


> I am definitely going to try. Do you think if the ice and snow was somehow removed the repair could adequately be done during the winter? The underlying supports (the painted white part in the photos) is saturated and swollen now. I wish I could put a bandaid on it and then see what needs replacing once it is dry. But I don't want to incur more damage it's going to be a long winter. Its a conundrum.


Well, that did not go too well. He does not believe that the lack of gable trim IN ANY WAY contributed to the ice damming situation. I explained we went up into the attic and traced the water wicking in from the eave and that I have never had penetration into the living space or over my deck any other year (7 seasons now) and he said if I asked any roofing professional they would tell me the same. He admitted that working in the ice and snow was dangeous but that is what he does for a living. There is no way I want to endanger a guy's life to fix my roof in January. What a mess.


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