# Underlayment



## user182

What synthetic underlayments do you recommend?

Have you used Rooftop Guard? I used it on one job, I liked it.

Deck Armour is priced too high, but I like the fact that it can breath. Rooftop Guard is a vapor barrier.


----------



## user182

Our policy is to shingle whatever we tear off the same day. We don’t use tarps because they can blow away.

However I’m wondering if we used synthetic underlayment if it would be safe to leave it over night. What do you think?

I’ve got a couple cedar shake tear off jobs lined up that require plywood laid over the roof boards and I’m thinking about getting the plywood down before we get the rooftop delivery. In that case it might make sense to use a high grade underlayment so it could be left exposed overnight.

Maybe I could start selling synthetic underlayment as an upgrade and tell the customer that one benefit is it can be left exposed overnight and it won’t leak.
​


----------



## user182

*Standard underlayment*

What type of underlayment do you include as a standard feature with every proposal that you make?

My standard is 15 lb felt paper.


----------



## ronbryanroofing

How much is the 15# felt paper over there? We are very fond of Grace Tryflex Synthetic. About 15-16 dollars a square and shoot it down with button caps (I have a couple Bostich Guns for it) and sleep well at night- tomorrow you get to straight shingle.
We rip the big ones one day and shingle the next. !5 years ago we would do it all in a day...


----------



## user182

*#15 paper*



ronbryanroofing said:


> How much is the 15# felt paper over there? We are very fond of Grace Tryflex Synthetic. About 15-16 dollars a square and shoot it down with button caps (I have a couple Bostich Guns for it) and sleep well at night- tomorrow you get to straight shingle.
> We rip the big ones one day and shingle the next. !5 years ago we would do it all in a day...


15 # paper is about $5.8 per square including tax.


----------



## user182

*Gun for cap nails?*



ronbryanroofing said:


> How much is the 15# felt paper over there? We are very fond of Grace Tryflex Synthetic. About 15-16 dollars a square and shoot it down with button caps (I have a couple Bostich Guns for it) and sleep well at night- tomorrow you get to straight shingle.
> We rip the big ones one day and shingle the next. !5 years ago we would do it all in a day...


I’ve never seen one of those guns for cap nails used. How dependable are they?


----------



## ronbryanroofing

Very. Caps are pre bound 100 count I believe, staples like a gun. Its slide, shoot slide shoot not bang bang like a roofing gun. It will but the staples sometimes bend over. 700-800 square with them and not one jamb. I personally have never slap stapled myself to the deck but I have seen others and this with the slide and shoot smoothes the Tryflex then secures. I generally dry in top down and I can run out a new roll of Tryflex alone- flat and straight. Pretty little spots "shoot here" down the middle and I don't have to worry it will blow off like felt. May look a little bumpy but smoothes out flat. 
I'd like to think I am a gadget guy and this is a good one.


----------



## tumpline

Jack The Roofer said:


> Our policy is to shingle whatever we tear off the same day. We don’t use tarps because they can blow away. _*We generally do the same although there are instances where we rip the whole roof and dry in what cannot be completed, in those instances we use synthetic underlayment .*_
> 
> However I’m wondering if we used synthetic underlayment if it would be safe to leave it over night. What do you think?
> 
> _*I was called to a custom home last november where the builder went bankrupt, 20% of the roof was completed and all the rest was exposed. We went in and dried in the roof with Triflex synthetic as to stop the OSB sheets from totally failing.
> We had another nasty winter with snow and high winds and the synthetic is still holding up quite well.
> *_
> I’ve got a couple cedar shake tear off jobs lined up that require plywood laid over the roof boards and I’m thinking about getting the plywood down before we get the rooftop delivery. In that case it might make sense to use a high grade underlayment so it could be left exposed overnight.
> 
> 
> Maybe I could start selling synthetic underlayment as an upgrade and tell the customer that one benefit is it can be left exposed overnight and it won’t leak._*I dont usually push the synthetics , however in the past few years I have been noticing an increase in customers requesting it be installed with their roof installations.*_


----------



## Grumpy

My standard is 30# I don't use synthetics yet, but if I did I'd have to lower my installation rate because those 10 square rolls go down quicker. 

Felt paper and tarps are not water tight and I won't leave them exposed over night. I have said it 1000 times: A dry in, isn't dry. We shingle what ever we tear off that day. Or the guys get to listen to me scream and yell the next day. 

I'll do 30# or the Certainteed fiberglas felt for the same price.


----------



## user182

Grumpy said:


> My standard is 30# I don't use synthetics yet, but if I did I'd have to lower my installation rate because those 10 square rolls go down quicker.
> 
> Felt paper and tarps are not water tight and I won't leave them exposed over night. I have said it 1000 times: A dry in, isn't dry. We shingle what ever we tear off that day. Or the guys get to listen to me scream and yell the next day.
> 
> I'll do 30# or the Certainteed fiberglas felt for the same price.


If I decide to include better paper with every job I would choose Roofers Select over 30 lb.

Have you found that customers appreciate the better quality paper?

Or does it just make your price that much more than the other guys and it doesn’t help close any more sales?


----------



## tomstruble

ive used titanium udl for some metal roofs ive done its strong,lightwieght and stays cool its got a really nice grippable surface and goes on quickly
There are some synthetics that are approved for staples Sharkskin is one [i think]


----------



## ronbryanroofing

Way back in the day we used felt on the walls too, now Breathable house wraps because it is better.
I am led to believe the Synthetics Under layments breath too and as roofing goes its evolution and it is a easy up-sell as I think it is so much quicker to install that the cost difference is a good trade.
Part of my typical presentation, "No, we don't use felt anymore, evolution as we feel synthetics are a better product."


----------



## buildpinnacle

I won't use anything but Shinglemate, which is a fiberglass injected felt. The organic felts just don't hold up. Shinglemate is the same price as 30# and my customers like the free upgrade. I have used a product called palisade underlayment which I liked. http://www.sdp-products.com/HTML/feltfree.html

I won't use 15# felt on anything. It is an inferior product.


----------



## Ed the Roofer

I use 30# felt because it holds up better for safety for the workers and because no one else is using it, so it is one more item to differentiate my company versus the other bidders trying to do things as cheaply as possible.

The last time I checked, Shingle Mate was about double the price, so I will check again to see if it is true that it costs the same as 30#.  One better upgrade to differentiate myself with.

Ed


----------



## buildpinnacle

Ed,

Shinglemate is $41.50 per 4SQ roll here, and 30# felt is actually a bit more as it is $21.00 per roll for 2SQ. Go figure.


----------



## user182

Ed the Roofer said:


> I use 30# felt because it holds up better for safety for the workers and because no one else is using it, so it is one more item to differentiate my company versus the other bidders trying to do things as cheaply as possible.
> 
> The last time I checked, Shingle Mate was about double the price, so I will check again to see if it is true that it costs the same as 30#. One better upgrade to differentiate myself with.
> 
> Ed


I don't like 30 # because it will buckle up if it absorbs humidity. It could lift up the shingles and lead to wind damge. 

I am working on an estimate right now to replace a 6 year old roof that has frequent wind damge and it has 30# felt paper.


----------



## Ed the Roofer

I have heard that so often about the 30# buckling, but we do not run into that problem.

I tarp up any exposed felt every single night though, so no rain or condensation ever has the chance to permeate the material, prior to installing the shingles.

Ed


----------



## Roofsafe

I use the synthetics and have had no problems with it, I have seen it on the roof all winter at times and the building would be nearing finish and still have snow on it. No problems.


----------



## Mattp

I have been using Perm-felt synthetic for awhile. Im paying about $14 per square. I love the 4' wide rolls by 10sq rolls . Saves a ton in labor when you only have a three man crew. I dont believe any felt is better than others once the roof has been shinlged but its code so I feel if im goin to use it, use the best. Also if I had to I would feel comfortable leaving it exposed over night.


----------



## bonsellroofing

try out the palisade or titanium udl. Both are great. I Especially like the titanium and both right around $100 for a 10sq. Roll


----------



## bonsellroofing

stay away from novaseal. Its great at first, very sticky but as soon as it gets any dirt or grit or any water or moisture it becomes very slippery.


----------



## peterjames

Underlayments for soft flooring like carpet are very different from underlayments for hard surfaces. Be sure to understand the varieties and different uses of underlayments when choosing materials for your floor covering project.


----------



## noahweb

are you talking about using a role on epoxy type underlayment?


----------



## Affordable Roofing FL

*My current synthetic of choice -*

Certainteed Diamond Deck. It doesn't rip or tear and it's cooler to work with in the hot Florida Sun (its white). I am old school but am loving this new product. Give it a try. 


John - 
www.AffordableRoofingFL.com


----------

