# Deck Armor



## user182

Contractors that push GAF are trying to sell Deck Armor over regular felt by showing the customer how easy is is to tear the felt.

I actually lost a big job last year when the HO asked if she could try to tear the Roofer Select paper. After she ripped the paper sample she said that it was not a durable material.


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## OUTLAW

Jack,
Why didn't you offer her a synthetic underlayment?

I mean, if she didn't want organtic felt because it tears to easy.


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## user182

*Warranty upgrade*



OUTLAW said:


> Jack,
> Why didn't you offer her a synthetic underlayment?
> 
> I mean, if she didn't want organtic felt because it tears to easy.


They wanted a waranty upgrade, I am certified through CertainTeed but not GAF.

CT requires roofers select paper.

I had a similar encounter yesterday. When I spoke to the prospect on the phone he said he didn't want regular felt because it would deteriorate over time. He also wanted a better warranty.

When I gave the presentation he said that the 5 star warranty and roofers select paper would be acceptable.

The point is GAF contractors are making a big deal about underlayment.


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## tinner666

All the manufacturers are making a big deal on underlay. It's all about them making more money. Felt won't make the roof any better. It's just an upsell. Or, as I suspect, they have No/Zero/Nil faith in their own product.


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## OUTLAW

If you read the warranty requirements for 5-star you will see that roofers select is not required. # 15 felt is the minimum. Does not matter who's felt it is. As far ice and water sheild goes, you are required to use winterguard.


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## tomstruble

Frank do you feel underlayment is ever nesessary?Or is it more or less just to keep the deck dry while you complete the roof?


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## tinner666

Tom, I use it all the time. I&W under flat-lock to prevent condensation on the bottom of the metal. No other reason for it there.
I run one or 2 courses of I&W on roofs.
As a rule, if the stuff is in my way on chimneys, walls or otherwise, I cut it out of the way.

The 15 year asphalt shingles were good to go for 18-22 years with or without any felt. I'll cut awrinkle from the felt without a second thought.

To me, Roof installation is foremost in my thoughts. Not underlay installation. Since I might have to leave a roof open, I'll felt like I'm roofing, but once I start coming up the roof, I don't worry about it.


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## tinner666

"Or is it more or less just to keep the deck dry while you complete the roof?"
When the sheathing runs horizonal with the eave, felt helps show the lines if they would otherwise land on a crack.


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## tinner666

:thumbup: I read a quote by Lefty the other day. Something to the effect that to learn to roof, you should tear off roofing. AND analize what did and didn't work. 
I have seen leaks caused by shoddy work that were 'hidden' by the underlay. A side effect of that is that the felt stayed saturated and kept the wood wet, often leading to extensive wood damage.

What the heck, if installation is screwed up, lets find a leak then, not a year later with extensive damage. I'll never just rely on underlay to protect my customers. I tell them that. I also tell them I'll use any they want, other than I&W on the whole roof.

Sorry for the rambling. I'm not as good as Egg, Lefty, Mike, OS, and some others at expressing my thoughts coherently. :blink:


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## tomstruble

no-no ramble on the more i talk to you the more i learn how to give my customers a better more thought out job thanks for taking the time

Tom


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## tinner666

tomstruble said:


> no-no ramble on the more i talk to you the more i learn how to give my customers a better more thought out job thanks for taking the time
> 
> Tom


Tom. Do I honestly make any sense? Wish I was a wordsmith! And my main hobby is reading! Go figure.:wallbash:


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## ronbryanroofing

Up here in Vermont Grace Tryflex is getting pretty common. We did a GAF Camelot job last year and used Deck Armor. 10 square rolls 4' wide cover fast in a storm. Light, shoot them down as required with the button caps  but DON'T WALK ON WHEN WET, EVEN A LITTLE WET! Harnesses keep you from bouncing off the ground but that first 5 feet to the back of your head hurts! 
The Tryflex is great because it carries a 90 day to the weather warranty and it doesn't blow off after its been there for a week in the summer sun.


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## user182

*Grace Tryflex*



ronbryanroofing said:


> Up here in Vermont Grace Tryflex is getting pretty common. We did a GAF Camelot job last year and used Deck Armor. 10 square rolls 4' wide cover fast in a storm. Light, shoot them down as required with the button caps but DON'T WALK ON WHEN WET, EVEN A LITTLE WET! Harnesses keep you from bouncing off the ground but that first 5 feet to the back of your head hurts!
> The Tryflex is great because it carries a 90 day to the weather warranty and it doesn't blow off after its been there for a week in the summer sun.


I’ve got some questions about Grace Tryflex:


Can you walk on it when it’s wet?
Can you count on it not to leak if left exposed overnight?
Does it breathe like Deck Armor?
How much does it cost?
I don't think i want to use Deck Armor if you can't walk on it when it's wet.


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## ronbryanroofing

*Walking on felt is safer, but yes to an extent you can. Pitch and how wet play a part.
*Warranty says button caps not staples. We have left sections open in remodeling situations for weeks with no issues. 
*It is so much easier than felt and cost, $15-16 bucks a square ten square roll. Use it once and you won't go back. Putting it down it appears bubbly but by AM its so nice and flat ready to pop lines and shingle. 
*I believe it is breathable alike. 
*Personally I would not use the GAF product as it is difficult to see the florescent orange chalk lines in the bright sun and it stretches sooo much when walking on it.


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## MJW

Chalk lines??? Who uses chalk lines to shingle anymore? :laughing:

I like the GAF shinglemate paper the best, but that is about the only good product GAF makes. Would be interested in the deck armour for one thing.........it's white! A heck of a lot cooler in the summer.


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## Mattp

I have been using Perma felt. 10sq rolls 4' wide. It has kind of a sticky fell to it and wont wrinkle when wet. Although you still cant walk on it when wet. Anybody else has opinions on this product. We are paying about $13.50 per square for this.


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## MJW

Just started using Feltex. 4 ft. wide, 10 square rolls, about $125 a roll. Very grippy, but plastic coated bundles will slide on it. I really like it because it is a white color and will be nice for warmer days. Not a huge fan of using the button nails though.


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## FLRoofPro

Our crews have enjoyed using Deck Armor. Superior product than other synthetics in my opinion. Not only with tear strength, but also breathability. 16 perms vs. practically none is a good selling feature. That said, we mostly use Titanium UDL30 in our market due to price and popularity on standard roofs. Yes, it is a slip-n-slide if it gets wet, but it is cheaper than even 30# felt at the moment.


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