# night seal failure, kinda, not really, JUST READ IT



## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Short story: A few years ago I was talking with a facility manager. This manager had me out bidding ona job, it was the 2nd roof phase on the building. When I asked him about the 1st phase he said someone else got the job, but he stated he wouldn't be using them again. When I asked why, he mentioned how the roof leaked during the course of the roofing work. I recalled the roof assembly was completely saturated with water, like a sponge, and thought to myself the same thing probably would have happened to me if I got the job. 


Well, now it did. A roof leaked while we were working. This is an aprox 100 square low slope condo. The roofs were poorly maintained and had some water in some spots. Alot of horizontal water migration. So we shoveled the snow off the roof fearing this might happen, even fearing we might have a night seal failure. WHILE the roofers were working, we had a thaw. There ended up being a leak in the old roof about 5' away from where we were working. The ONLY explination I can think of is water trapped in the roofing assembly. There was no snow on the roof, no rain or snow while we were working. I can think of no other cause. I think possibly at our cut in the roofing assembly we interupted some sort path of the horizontal water flow and basically moved the leak to a new area. 

But this brings me to my question. This is not a failure of the night seal per say. But the customer can argue it is my fault because it is a new leak and near to the area where we are working. Having now been in this situation twice (kinda if you consider the first example) I think NOW is the time for me to figure out a way to prevent this from happeneing a third time. 


So what do you guys do to attempt to mitigate this from happening? Do you tell your customers upfront this might happen? If so what prompts you to "disclaim" this leak scenario? Do you go through roofs patching them first before you start replacing them? 

I just don't want to repalce anymore ceilings or create any ill will with my customers.


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## 1985gt (Dec 21, 2010)

This is always a hard but fairly common thing. Since there was a leak and your on the roof its your baby, but you already know that.

If the leak had been in a location it had previously leaked you would have a leg to stand on. One thing that could be considered is to obviously let them know that there is a possibility of a leak, and explain it to them. In the situation your in you could explain that there is no moisture on the roof and that any leak had to have been either from a thaw or other unknown situation. Or you could have a guy sit there with a shop vac and suck all the moisture out.


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## English Roofer (Dec 26, 2008)

I don't think you can ever escape from 'you were the last person up there' syndrome! I have done repairs on a house only to be called months later to say there's a leak!
I do not guarantee repairs but you still get called back if there's a leak, there's no escaping it but I would argue your case hard!
good luck
Dave


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

A contractual disclaimer seems to be the only means of solving this problem. Either that or an industrial roll of sham wow! installed as a part of the night seal to soak up the water as it leaks out. LOL 

I agree with everything you said GT. It is my baby because the leak is new. Did we cause the leak? Well one can argue either way. It wasn't there before us. It was caused by water possibly already in the roof assembly, from the old part of the roof. If we hadn't cut the roof to tear it off, we would not have released the moisture. So the whole mess just becomes an argument. It becomes cheaper just to replace the ceiling, but then you end up working the whole day for free.


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## 1985gt (Dec 21, 2010)

Just get in good with a drywall patch guy. Volume discount!

Funny thing about the shamwow. have you ever used Benoite for temp leak repairs?

http://www.solutex.com/0/11-facility-maintenance/68-tools-roof-and-asphalt-patches/816-290-3-122a-quick-seal-7-roof-patch/detailed-product-flyer.htm

We use this for repairs that just can not be done right then and there and or are running way to many leaks to sit and take hours to dry stuff up. I don't agree with the "it will find the leak part" but it does work good to seal the leak temporarily. We will use it on night tie off's too, as a added protection. It will soak up any migrating moisture.

I will say it is slicker then just about anything when wet. Its a pain to clean up after its been wet. It turns to a jell. Its also no for shingles as if I needed to say that.


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## How'd that get there (Sep 22, 2010)

We've pretty much accepted that once we step on the roof we own it - even if we've never touched it before. We do assess the potential for leaks and then decide on a course of action. We will educate the owner (bring them up or pics)
Making repairs before we start may be ok on a single ply but on a bur it just makes for safety and housekeeping issues. We may on occasion resort to pixy dust or a miracle cure that sets up (not like roof cement). Here in the east we hardly ever pull the kettle out anymore. Any old bur gets a single ply 98% of the time so just pouring "hot" on anything isn't an option- not like it would really do anything anyway.. We do ask our foreman to check the site daily even on rain days. All our crews carry at least one of those upside down tent tarps with the place to screw a hose in. I guess our philosophy leans more toward minimizing the liability. I mean in the end even with some legalize you're still going to do have to deal with stopping the leak & subsequent damage


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