# You are Building a brand new house. What roof will you choose?



## cigarchitect

Let's say that you are young. In your twenties. You are building a brand new home for you and your family. You live in MA or NH or somewhere with similar snow loads and ice issues. Assuming you had confidence in a product and installer, would you be hesitant to put a *flat roof* on your home? If that is the style of architecture you prefer would you feel like its a risky thing to do, knowing that you will likely live in that home for the rest of your life? Be honest.


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## apkole

No question . . . avoid a flat roof if at all possible. Flat roofs are fine for industrial and commercial as they have the financial and personnel resources to address inspection and maintenance issues, and they budget for them.

Most residential homeowners only look at the roof when a leak occurs, almost never before. If I'm in my 20's and want to not deal with another roof in my lifetime . . . . . probably a steep roof (8 pitch) with a steel shingle installed by the most qualified contractor I can find . . . . . a craftsman in his early 40's who was trained by another craftsman. 

If I'm buying a lifetime roof, I'm not looking at pricing . . . . just focusing on top quality materials and workmanship. 

Just my 1/2 cent opinion.


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## cigarchitect

Thanks for replying. Anyone else agree or disagree? Besides a big industrial building that has its own mainenence crew, I would say that most smaller commercial buildings with flat roofs, do not do routine inspections or budget for leaks. If no one has confidence in the durability of a flat roof in an area with snow, then why are they so widely used for commercial projects? Everyone seems scared to use a flat roof in residential projects. Is it really more likely to fail than a steep pitched shingle roof? Is it so much more expensive. I really would like someone to spell it out to me. My suspicion is just that most residential contractors are just not comfortable working with flat roof products.


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## English Roofer

cigarchitect said:


> Thanks for replying. Anyone else agree or disagree? Besides a big industrial building that has its own mainenence crew, I would say that most smaller commercial buildings with flat roofs, do not do routine inspections or budget for leaks. If no one has confidence in the durability of a flat roof in an area with snow, then why are they so widely used for commercial projects? Everyone seems scared to use a flat roof in residential projects. Is it really more likely to fail than a steep pitched shingle roof? Is it so much more expensive. I really would like someone to spell it out to me. My suspicion is just that most residential contractors are just not comfortable working with flat roof products.


Hi, Like all roofs you will get a longer life out of them if you look after them, but most people don't till something goes wrong! that goes for any type of roof pitched of flat!
In the U.K. there are home insurance issues if the flat roof on a residential roof covering is more than 25% of the building! thats how much they trust them!
Personally if it had to be a flat roof i would go for EPDM or Fiberglass but i would go for a pitched roof every time with Welsh slates on that will last for 100's of years, and as Apkole says, nice and steep!
Hope this helps
Regards
Dave


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## Valley.Guy

CigArchitect what is the average snow & rain fall for your location?
How about the highest wind gust speeds that you would expect in your region too?


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## FriscoBlue

cigarchitect said:


> Let's say that you are young. In your twenties. You are building a brand new home for you and your family. You live in MA or NH or somewhere with similar snow loads and ice issues. Assuming you had confidence in a product and installer, would you be hesitant to put a *flat roof* on your home? If that is the style of architecture you prefer would you feel like its a risky thing to do, knowing that you will likely live in that home for the rest of your life? Be honest.


 
Vermont Slate Roof, Copper Flashing.
Installed by a Slate Roofing Contractor with plenty of experience with Slate Install


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## cigarchitect

Valley.Guy said:


> CigArchitect what is the average snow & rain fall for your location?
> How about the highest wind gust speeds that you would expect in your region too?


Not sure of the highest wind speed in my exact area, I know that in surrounding towns, 25mph winds would be considered high. 
Avg snow fall is like 70" anually.
Avg rain fall is aprox. 50" anually


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## cigarchitect

So if I understand you all correctly, collectively you feel that if there is any way to avoid it, no roof should be flat in an area of the world that has harsh winters? Everyone is in agreement that a flat roof on a residence is so much more likely to fail than a shingled pitched roof that you shouldn't ever consider building a home with a flat roof in this part of the world? I am confused as to why then they are still so widely used. Even in places that have more snow than we do here in Massachussetts, like Montreal etc. Is it possible that maybe flat roofs just have a bad reputation? Has anyone seen a study on durability and cost of a flat roof over a lifetime, vs a pitched roof?


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## dougger222

That's easy, it would be a 7/12 hip roof because those are the best money when the insurance pays for it!!!

My roof is almost there. 45sq 8/12 hip roof with 2 18/12 tarrets. Of course it was bought "almost" new. Waiting for wind to blow some T-lines off it to put a real roof on it.

As far as shingle I'd do anything but asphalt if you never want to replace the roof again. My neighbor thought a copper roof would last his lifetime, 10 years later hail "totalled" it. 60sq's now Grand Manor 12/12. The rest of my neighbors have standing seam... A friend of mine did a copper roof as well. In less than 10 years his insurance company gave him a check for $50K for it (hail).


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## FerrisHI

I put TPO on the Flat roof all day long...its better then the EPDM...


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## acc

Living here in Eastern Canada, I would stay away from flat roofs . Their reputation here with the snow load we get, is very negative. Most flat roof contracters here, only give out an approx 10 to 15 years warranty. Don't think there are many new flat roof construction going on anymore. Also the insurance for flat roofers is ridiculous . 

My personal preferrence would be Aluminum shingles or metal panels (standing seam). Any interlocking systems are very dependable in high wind areas, attractive and and installers here tend to take more pride in their work, working with metal !!! Should also help the resale of your property.


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## jimsonburg

Flat roofs provide a substantial warmth factor during the cold season as the flat surface attracts sunshine and transfers it to the dwelling below. In addition, as in commercial buildings, high rises or apartment complexes, a flat roof often doubles as patio space and offers an alternate exit from tall buildings. Rooftop gardens and even rooftop swimming pools are possible with a flat roof. Additionally, because constructing a flat roof takes less material and labor, the original cost is less than that of a gable roof.


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## FerrisHI

Flat roofing will last if installed properly...The further you get away from the cities the less people know about flat roofing...Its almost all they put on the commercial buildings around here...Its so much cheaper to build a flat roof...A shingle roof is still better then a flat roof...


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## blageurt

I would install a IKO Caimbridge LT shingle , with Full Ice / Water shield underlay with a Ridge vent and copper plumbing flanges , B-vents, Snorkels depending on needs . All flashings , chimney and otherwise including drip edge would be copper as well. For any flats I would install A Torch-on, Bit mod 2 ply system with the top ply being 180 " Classic smooth " which would be then painted with aluminium paint. Should last 50 years easy .... again all Metal on the Flat edges would be copper ....


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## angielily18

If I am given a chance to build my house in a snowy area, the first thing I should do is to check how often snow falls in a year. An engineer told me that my roof should probably be designed for a snow load of 20 lbs. in every horizontal square foot. On the style of the house, the best is the two-storey with low-slope roofs because these are the hardest.

by: roofing minneapolis


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## Tom Runyon

Start with 1/2 per ft. slope, are you insulating above or below the roof deck? Min. 1/2 hardboard (if below) better to glue it down, no thermal bridging.3 plys of type 4 felt (lays flater then type 6) in hot asphalt type 3. sbs modified cap sheet (no phasing). Interior cast iron roof drains. This is a 20yr system at 18 coat with emulsion,ployester, emulsion, top coat with acrylic. Check with different suppy houses for the most qualifed roof


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## MGP Roofing

In my area, genuine terracotta tiles. Last 100yrs or more, never fade or corrode. Use the modern interlocking type, not the old over/under type, those often have leak issues here. Good brands are Wunderlich, Boral, Bristile, and Escandella. There's also a number of Italian and French brands available here that are good.


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## dougger222

I try to stay away from shingle manufacturers that only cover leaks. 
IKO, Malarky, Pabco, Atlas, BPCO/EMCO, and Tamko are all LEAK ONLY warranty.


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## PTROOFING

blageurt said:


> I would install a IKO Caimbridge LT shingle , with Full Ice / Water shield underlay with a Ridge vent and copper plumbing flanges , B-vents, Snorkels depending on needs . All flashings , chimney and otherwise including drip edge would be copper as well. For any flats I would install A Torch-on, Bit mod 2 ply system with the top ply being 180 " Classic smooth " which would be then painted with aluminium paint. Should last 50 years easy .... again all Metal on the Flat edges would be copper ....


I like your idea, if homeowner can afford! Also note: if ice guarding entire deck, I would suggest boxed roof louvers instead of ridge vent and depending on sf, adding 1-3 power fans with a humidistat. For the flat roof, we'd torch down and instead of aluminum coating, we'd use Mule Hide a-320 white elastomeric coating, OR we'd simple put down mule Hide Self Adhered Modified Cap, it comes in most popular shingle colors to match. Except I choose GAF/ELK for shingle choice.


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## ultimateconstruction

apkole said:


> No question . . . avoid a flat roof if at all possible. Flat roofs are fine for industrial and commercial as they have the financial and personnel resources to address inspection and maintenance issues, and they budget for them.
> 
> Most residential homeowners only look at the roof when a leak occurs, almost never before. If I'm in my 20's and want to not deal with another roof in my lifetime . . . . . probably a steep roof (8 pitch) with a steel shingle installed by the most qualified contractor I can find . . . . . a craftsman in his early 40's who was trained by another craftsman.
> 
> If I'm buying a lifetime roof, I'm not looking at pricing . . . . just focusing on top quality materials and workmanship.
> 
> Just my 1/2 cent opinion.


you're right out there when you said if it's for lifetime, go for quality. that's the best advice so far, so guys you could check out ultimate construction where you won't regret a lifetime roof without any hassle of reroofing every now and then.


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## rece

In my opinion, I feel that if you are looking for a "lifetime roof" then you will be looking at a high end product. My hierarchy would be slate Vermont or Quebec (not the Chinese crap)=$$$, clay (not appropriate in many northern climates due to freeze thaw)=$$$, and what in my opinion is the best bang for your buck and lifespan would be concrete tile. Really this is one of the only products that offers the longevity, non-combustibility, hail resistance and low maintenance at a reasonable price=$$ (comparable to a 5/6 bundle "high grade" asphalt).

I wonder why there is so little talk about tile on this forum? It is in fact the most predominant roofing material used around the world.


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## Acubis

*Lifetime Roofing - Not Flat*

While there are many good flat roof systems available not a one of them is a "Lifetime" roofing system. Even the most expensive flat roof you could purchase will have a usable life of 20-30 years MAX.

You are right is saying that most residential contractors have so little experience with flat roofing that they shy away. 

My largest commercial contractor that does jobs in excess of $1 million dollars is also the largest residential contractor in their area. If given the choice they'd always prefer sloped to flat. Flat is a maintenance product. One vertical impacts will pierce any flat roof material out there are require repair. The sun and elements beat up the chemicals in flat roofs and cause eventual failure. 

Even a 90 mil multi layer roof will fail and the seams are another issue.

Best sloped roof??? It's a hard one. Some of this depends on your taste and the availability of product as well as qualified contractors in your area.

Tile is the largest roofing category in the world because it's extremely long lasting and beautiful. However I would never put a tile roof on MI for instance - there's next to no qualified contractors and you pretty much have to ship in the material. Heavy snow loads with ice back up crack some tiles and service in winter is difficult.

Slate- Last nearly forever if thick enough(there are some slates roofs in Europe 200years +) and properly flashed(copper etc) service is a nightmare! and quality install is even harder. Not to mention cost $$$$$$$$$ 

Steel - Well, this might be a winner if you like the look. Commercial grade standing seam steel is a long term solution with top manufactures warranting their products for LIFE with some paint warranties of 50 years. Go with a mechanical seamed system if you can(no snap lock cheapos) Its expensive but not crazy. As for steel shingles - well one earlier poster mentioned having a 40 year old craftsmen install them who was taught by one before him. This is about impossible given the fact that most steel shingles on the market with current install methods hasn't existed more than 15-20years at max. Now stamped steel from the victorian age has been around a while but its so incredibly rare and boutique you'd have to really know what you getting into. That being said there are some awesome steel shingle type products out there that should last a very long time. Lately we have been seeing look alike steel SLATE roofing that is awesome.

Shingles= Still the BEST bang for the buck on the market! If the roof isn't too crazy designed I wouldn't hezitate putting on a number of Lifetime warrantied shingles roofs. Of course its not the product you put on but the details that will make this type of roof last. PROPER ventilation, insulation, flashings, and INSTALL methods and roof design. Especially some of the SBS shingles on the market today are made for a lifetime of use and as a "young" new owner they may be a way to get something unique while still having some money left over for furniture. 

visit

www.researchroofing.com for a brief synopsis on lots of different types of roofing.


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## RooferJim

This is an easy question. Flat roofing the winner is a coal tar pitch BUR with gravel. a single ply 80 mil pvc also will have a very long life as will a 60 mill EPDM with tapes seams. For sloped roofs its a no brainer for sure. A slate roof is as close to a perfect roof as you can get, but you have to use a good grade of slate and a have a good crew to install it. Concrete tile does not due well in northern climates with freeze thaw cycles, clay tile does "espeacilly Ludowici-Celadon" common in New England. Metal roofing that will rust or has flashing details that are not solderd and based on caulking will fail. The first bird that lands on it or branch that hits it will cause rust, and salt water air "forget it".

RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com


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## RooferJim

I also should add that I was on a coal tar pitch BUR recently to do some repairs, it was installed in 1960. Yes it really is that old. I have also done repair on a PVC roof "sarnafil" that was installed in 1979, it was still weldable. There are slate and tile roofs in the Boston area that are preforming well after 100 years, although the flashings will have to be changed.

RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com


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## MGP Roofing

As a result of recent events, now I have to revise my earlier choice! A high end asphalt shingle, or, if finances permit, Welsh slate on close boards for the extra bracing. I'd consider copper or zinc standing seam for the right house, too. I'm glad the house isn't mine, there's lots of tile roofs like this around Christchurch now. The Cathedral roof held up better than many, even several tonnes of falling stonework struggled to dislodge the slates around the hole it made! And its well over 100 years old.


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## 1985gt

Coal tar pitch, Base, 4 plys, and gravel it. raise the edges 4" raise the drains 3" let the water and snow sit and that roof will last a very very long time.


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## RoofersEdge

cigarchitect said:


> So if I understand you all correctly, collectively you feel that if there is any way to avoid it, no roof should be flat in an area of the world that has harsh winters? Everyone is in agreement that a flat roof on a residence is so much more likely to fail than a shingled pitched roof that you shouldn't ever consider building a home with a flat roof in this part of the world? I am confused as to why then they are still so widely used. Even in places that have more snow than we do here in Massachussetts, like Montreal etc. Is it possible that maybe flat roofs just have a bad reputation? Has anyone seen a study on durability and cost of a flat roof over a lifetime, vs a pitched roof?


This is because of two reasons. First of all when you are warehousing inventory on a wide scale, it would be impossible to create a proper pitched roof that could cover 100, 200, 300 000 sq ft ++ without violating zoning laws and most importantly at a reasonable cost. This is why flat roofs will always be viable in the commercial market. As for the residential market, most flat roofs are put into the plans for newer homes and older homes 99% of the time by design of the architect for originality of design. Most architects due not concern themselves with water tighting/proofing a roof surface as a primary concern. This happens more often with the higher end markets that we call "Modern Home Architecture". Ask any roofer that has dealt with "Modern Architects" and they will tell you a lot about these things and situations that they encounter with brand new structures that are very difficult to water tight. "Just make it work", is a very common expression in these situations!


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## MGP Roofing

RoofersEdge said:


> This is because of two reasons. First of all when you are warehousing inventory on a wide scale, it would be impossible to create a proper pitched roof that could cover 100, 200, 300 000 sq ft ++ without violating zoning laws and most importantly at a reasonable cost. This is why flat roofs will always be viable in the commercial market. As for the residential market, most flat roofs are put into the plans for newer homes and older homes 99% of the time by design of the architect for originality of design. Most architects due not concern themselves with water tighting/proofing a roof surface as a primary concern. This happens more often with the higher end markets that we call "Modern Home Architecture". Ask any roofer that has dealt with "Modern Architects" and they will tell you a lot about these things and situations that they encounter with brand new structures that are very difficult to water tight. "Just make it work", is a very common expression in these situations!


I assume you mean things like the internal gutter on this roof that discharges into the hip. I had to actually cut the caps to fit around the end of the gable and weave the butyl rubber gutter liner in between the caps & hope it works! A couple beads of mastic in the right places to help steer the water the right way as well, so far, so good.  Or the chimney on a 45 degree angle to the ridge & in the middle of a clay tile roof I have been working on. Need some substantial and very costly lead flashings on that one!


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## shinglebroker

*Well it depends*

Well the thing is every shingle is warrenty for the lifetime so it really doesnt matter what shingle you use in terms of how long they are going to last so i would use a color that matches the brick thats what i did when i built my house. Let me know if this helps you


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## Dallas-Roofing

I would definitely go with a pitch roof. It is much less expensive and is designed to have water to run off. This is an important feature for when you get snow sitting on you roof. There will be a constant drip and you want the drip to drip off the roof. If you plan on staying in the house for the rest of your life go with a pitch roof. You'll thank me when you have to replace it. A pitch roof is not cheap but a flat roof is very expensive. 

Devin Mahdi
Accountable Roofing Lewisville TX


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