# 3 ply hot mop price ?



## chrisp87

I have a client we have done multiple properties for I bid his 1 project at $350 per sq to remove 1 layer torch and install a 3 ply hot mop he said this was 2 much I thought it was pretty fair. Do you think he is just trying to get me to make a better price. I obviously want to keep the relationship but everybody needs to work at a profit any input 
Thanks guys


----------



## 1985gt

I just bid a small 7 sq or so job. Remove existing 2 ply with a aluma coating. Install a glass base, 2 ply felt top mop and coat and it was over 800 a sq. Strait to concrete deck, the existing nailers on the edges were reused except replacing 36 feet on the front, and your normal cant strip. Pretty barebones job, as easy and cheap as they come.

Granted this was a smaller job so that can kind of skew things but at 350 a sq I could have hired you to do it and put a nice profit in my pocket. 

I wouldn't say you were to high at all, if anything way to low.


----------



## chrisp87

Well if its only 8 sq I would be asking much more but when your talking about 200 sq it's a little different. It you live in a smaller city or area I think you can charge more but in a big city there's so much competition you need to keep costs in line to make a profit


----------



## Billy Luttrell

Good grief 350 and you are giving it away. I would be well over 900, and that is before factoring in gravel stop or coping and curbs and penetrations. 

If I am pulling a kettle behind my truck, someone is paying for it. 350 and I could not even do a .45 mechanically attached TPO...and that is the cheapest system I will offer and even then it is job and customer dependent.


----------



## chrisp87

I think it's complety based on region. You guys are from Alabama and Nebraska. Maybe its less competition. For example it only costs me $100 per sq for material and labor only to install torch


----------



## Billy Luttrell

chrisp87 said:


> I think it's complety based on region. You guys are from Alabama and Nebraska. Maybe its less competition. For example it only costs me $100 per sq for material and labor only to install torch



1 roll base felt - 40$
3 sheets 1/2 inch fiber board- 27$
1 Roll smooth base torch -75$
1 Roll torch Cap sheet - 75$

That is not factoring in fasteners or propane and that is just material....factor in labor and insurance too....

Chit must be super cheap in your region.


edit : Just seen you are in LA, good god with the cost of living out there...even with cheap materials I do not see how you make a living let alone a profit at 350 for a 3 ply.


----------



## 1985gt

chrisp87 said:


> Well if its only 8 sq I would be asking much more but when your talking about 200 sq it's a little different. It you live in a smaller city or area I think you can charge more but in a big city there's so much competition you need to keep costs in line to make a profit


Hence why I said it was a smaller job and can skew the numbers. Truth be told around here there isn't many people who even install Hot roofs any more, There is only 3 in a 40 or so mile radius of us, and we generally are the company to go to for a hot job, whether is 7 sq or 7,000 sq. 

One of our last hot jobs was 750 sq and on the same building two years before it it was around 2k sq. I will bet my paycheck that it cost more then 350 a sq in materials not including Iso, or fasteners.

I don't see how that even is competing, I know everything is regional, but damn. You can only "compete" as much as your bottom line will allow you. From what it sounds like your bottom fell out.

Just ran a quick spread sheet, 200 Sq tear off single layer bur, install 3ply hot and gravel, gravel stop all 4 sides. No penetrations ect, and I'm still at 900+ A sq, granted it was a quick run though and I didn't add or subtract much. But when a asphalt keg alone cost 40+ it adds up. And honestly I would consider that very fair price. Ran one for same roof, same situation only 60 mill EPDM and pushing the 600 a sq mark. To us that's about right on track. 

Remember those are simple roofs. no insulation ect. Granted I didn't do any trickery and shave moneys off the top to be "competitive" either.


At 350 a sq I would pass, even on a 200 sq job. I wouldn't eat for a month. Now times it by 2.5 and I might be in, 3 and I'd do it for sure. And feel good at the end of the day.


----------



## Billy Luttrell

@1985

I know things vary from region to region but you are right in line with my pricing here in the South.


----------



## dDubya

I put down a nailed base w/ self adhered SBS cap for $350/sq. On easy jobs. No tearoff included. :laughing:


----------



## Grumpy

Ok I don't know all the details, but $350 a square for flat anything seems like way too little. 


Too little? Really? Compared to what, Mr. Customer? <silence> 

Did he get another quote? Compare the two side to side. 

Did his brother pay less for his roof? Was it the same roof? Etc... 


When ever someone says my price is too high, I breathe a sigh of relief, I didn't screw up my math. Inevitably when ever someone says I am the cheapest, I made a major mistake on my math. 

There are a few salesman tricks which I can use. "Well let me check my math.... Hmm seems my price is too low I'll have to charge you an extra $897 for the job." They stop fighting on the discount they asked for and now start fighting you to honor your original price. I try not to use this, it's too sneaky for me, but I admit I've done it a few time and usually works.

What I prefer to do, "Ok Mr Customer, I understand. It is a big investment and everyone is on a budget. What I can do is downgrade to a 2 ply system. I can remove the cover board. We can take out the job-site protection, reuse you gravel stops and I can take out the termination bar (just some examples), this would lower the price to $300 a square." 

Inevitably they don't want you to downgrade their roof. They want a premium roof at a downgraded price. Call their bluff, I love playing poker. But don't do any of this stuff until you put the ball in their court. "Compared to what?" "What price were you expecting?" 

I know you said you want to continue the relationship. Short story. I have a friend who is a landscaper. He does great work, his jobs are awesome looking. He's way too damned cheap, and the people he works for abuse him and negotiate the final invoice time and time again. When the job is all said and done and he is paid, he often loses money. I told him over and over it doesn't make sense to keep working for these people. His answer is always the same, they give him lots of work. But I tell him, he's got enough practice already. If he isn't going to make any money he might as well stay home with his kids. The last thing you want is to continue a relationship with someone who will beat you up on price.

I do some work in a condominium association, so far we have repalced 3 or 4 roofs and have 2 more scheduled for this year. Each time the property manager has beat me up on price. I am no moron, after the first two roofs (one sale) I have added in a PITA tax, and just give it back to her. She can say to the board of directors she saved them money and I can work for profit instead of practice. I have no problem telling a customer they are not going to be a good fit for our company. If they talk about price too much I say flat out, "Sir, we are not going to be the cheapest. Infact there is a good chance we will be the most expensive. I'm not sure we are going to be a good fit. What do you think?"


----------



## chrisp87

Good points grumpy. This guy is the type of guy who owns buidlings and propertys so on some jobs we have done he has even gave me a bonus of like $3000 just because he was in a good mood. So some of his buildings he gets cheap on and wants a deal and some days he is more then fair so its a give take relationship. Let me throw this question out there before i post it 

how much PROFIT would you look for after you have paid your materials labor insurence overhead and WC ect..on a 300 sq job 2 stories basic install 
1 layer tear off wood shake
install 1/2 osb
install 30 Timberline HD 
its a HOA so figure the basic head aches and issues with tenents 

me personally i would be looking to clear $30,000 i dont know what anybody else would be looking for ??


----------

