# Roofing Design Ideas & Shortfalls



## TOMROD (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm a GAF New Product Designer.

If you have a new product idea (shingle, tool, etc) or just want to vent about current design shortfall(s), please post here.


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

If we had a product design, what assistance could you provide?

Do you need a prototype or just drawings and how could someone be sure to protect their intellectual rights for the potential marketability of that product?

Ed


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

What are my royalties?


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## TOMROD (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm the guy that can make new products a reality.

You can protect you new idea by submitting an invention disclosure and apply for a provisional application - it can run you $500+ in legal fees. Check out this link: http://www.patentapplications.net/disclosure/index.html

Or you can submit your idea to me (online or offline) either by just giving me a description or sending me a drawing. If I think it's a marketable idea, i'll speak with the higher-beings to see how we can proceed.

I'm not in the business if stealing ideas..i'm in the business of making new, innovative roofing products. I don't get royalties...if i patent a new product, I get a small bonus check (trust me small). I can work with you individually to work out compensation for any new ideas you share.

Hope you all can trust me...

Here is my address to submit ideas offline:

GAF Material Corp
R&D Lab bld 2-1
1361 Alps Road
Wayne, NJ 07470
Attn: Tommy Rodrigues


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## MJW (Apr 16, 2009)

There are so many inferiority's in the Timberlines that I don't know where to start.

GAF underlayments are very good (shingle mate, and I&W), but the shingles are just not up to par with the other brands.

I have read that there is a big difference in their quality in different parts of the country. GAF hasn't had a good shingle up here that I can remember. The newer Timberlines may be updated, but they are so soft at 55 degrees that they just smear on the roof. 
Sorry to say, but I'm not impressed. Although GAF isn't the only company I will gripe about........:whistling:


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## TOMROD (Apr 24, 2009)

You mean 155 degrees, right?


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## MJW (Apr 16, 2009)

Yesterday it was 55-60 degrees and sunny. We had to be very careful walking up the roof to put the ridge cap on. It seems that alot of these newer shingles are thinner, weaker, and cheaper.....(oh, but more expensive)


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

TOMROD said:


> I'm the guy that can make new products a reality.
> 
> You can protect you new idea by submitting an invention disclosure and apply for a provisional application - it can run you $500+ in legal fees. Check out this link: http://www.patentapplications.net/disclosure/index.html
> 
> ...


 
I am interested in discussing something further, but I need an ironclad Confidentiality Agreement Form in place first, prior to any discussions taking place.

Ed


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## buildpinnacle (Apr 18, 2009)

Ironically, in a lot of the roofing contractors who post here seem to use CT products. I have to assume that there are large differences in the quality of product from certain factories. Personally, we have been using GAF products both commercial low slope and steep slope for well over 10 years and I have never had a problem. Maybe its the area. You can't buy any CT products locally where I am at. They just don't have a presence in our market. Most guys around here view it as an inferior product. I'm not exactly sure why, that's just the way it is. GAF and Tamko have this market cornered and have for years. OC is making ground, but well behind.


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## Slyfox (Oct 30, 2008)

In my area, Gaf/Elk and Tamko are the heavier sales, with OC and Certainteed a strong second than Atlas and IKO.

Except in the big box stores, Lowes, Carter Lumber, 84 Lumber, etc.,
in those type stores/lumber yards you find OC on top than Gaf a strong second and very few of any others in stock.

The only pet peeve I have with Gaf/Elk is the paper wrappers, save the recycled paper for offices, schools, etc., and recycle some of the tons of waste plastics we have and wrap the shingles in it.


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## MJW (Apr 16, 2009)

I don't know of any shingles in paper anymore. Truthfully I like the paper much better. GAF was in plastic first up here. Others followed because it is cheaper.


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## Slyfox (Oct 30, 2008)

Gaf/Elk are both still in paper around here,
I believe there the only ones, not sure.

I like the plastic better because it's easier to contain the wrappers buy tying them into a ball, the paper will sometimes even blow out of the dumpster, like it was yesterday with the winds gusting up neat 20 mph.


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## apehangeralfy (Nov 10, 2008)

We need a good reliable button cap gun that uses plastic caps and roofing coil nails... like the BK gun but with better parts availability and product availability.

We are also looking for a gun that has the balls to shoot a .131" 8D ringshank coil nail for renailing decking to code in Fl. that will drive the nail home in old hard lumber and shoot fast.... the Max and others just ain't fast or strong enough... (also make it light... LOL).

A peel-n-seal shingle underlayment that has traction, sealability, high UV rating, light-weight, and has a split release on the back...


more to come...


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## TOMROD (Apr 24, 2009)

Ed the Roofer said:


> I am interested in discussing something further, but I need an ironclad Confidentiality Agreement Form in place first, prior to any discussions taking place.
> 
> Ed


 
I have an agreement being written by my legal department and I will send it once complete. Where should I send it? E-mail, Fax, Etc. You can e-mail me direct [email protected]


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## TOMROD (Apr 24, 2009)

apehangeralfy said:


> We need a good reliable button cap gun that uses plastic caps and roofing coil nails... like the BK gun but with better parts availability and product availability.
> 
> We are also looking for a gun that has the balls to shoot a .131" 8D ringshank coil nail for renailing decking to code in Fl. that will drive the nail home in old hard lumber and shoot fast.... the Max and others just ain't fast or strong enough... (also make it light... LOL).
> 
> ...


The guns are harder to do...but for the P&S underlayment, we have something new in the pipeline. How important is the UV factor?


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## TOMROD (Apr 24, 2009)

Slyfox said:


> Gaf/Elk are both still in paper around here,
> I believe there the only ones, not sure.
> 
> I like the plastic better because it's easier to contain the wrappers buy tying them into a ball, the paper will sometimes even blow out of the dumpster, like it was yesterday with the winds gusting up neat 20 mph.


Home Depot reqired plastic wraps and is our biggest buyer. I don't like plastic because I find them harder to open and it traps water inside that causes rub-loss (i.e. granules falling off the face).


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## TOMROD (Apr 24, 2009)

buildpinnacle said:


> Ironically, in a lot of the roofing contractors who post here seem to use CT products. I have to assume that there are large differences in the quality of product from certain factories. Personally, we have been using GAF products both commercial low slope and steep slope for well over 10 years and I have never had a problem. Maybe its the area. You can't buy any CT products locally where I am at. They just don't have a presence in our market. Most guys around here view it as an inferior product. I'm not exactly sure why, that's just the way it is. GAF and Tamko have this market cornered and have for years. OC is making ground, but well behind.


You are correct about the quality differences between plants. We are in the process of making changes to become more "seamless".


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

TOMROD said:


> The guns are harder to do...but for the P&S underlayment, we have something new in the pipeline. How important is the UV factor?


 For me, UV stability on an underlayment is not at all a factor one bit. I do not beleive in dry-ins therefore I cover the felt and ice shield with shingles. If for some odd reason we get stuck and can't cover it all that day, we will cover the felt with a tarp. You can never be too careful.


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## TOMROD (Apr 24, 2009)

MJW said:


> Yesterday it was 55-60 degrees and sunny. We had to be very careful walking up the roof to put the ridge cap on. It seems that alot of these newer shingles are thinner, weaker, and cheaper.....(oh, but more expensive)


 
That concerns me...What area are you located? What i think you are describing is what we call scuffing or granule loss. Is that correct? 

You're correct in saying the product is thinner, but it is not weaker.


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

TOMROD said:


> I have an agreement being written by my legal department and I will send it once complete. Where should I send it? E-mail, Fax, Etc. You can e-mail me direct [email protected]


You can send it to: [email protected] or through the Contact Us section on our website.

Does GAF have a specific program for co-venturing the development and marketing of other peoples patent ideas in place currently, or would everything be handled on a case by case criteria?

Do you need a sample of an actual working prototype? 

Ed


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

I foresee Ed gets ripped off by a huge corporation who shall remain nameless and we see Ed's product on the market with just enough variations that he can't sue or will be tied up in court for millenia... Ed ever see that movie where the guy sues Ford over the windshield wiper design? 

I wish you the best of luck buddy, but if GAF is writing up the agreement, who do you think that agreement will favor? Dot your i's and cross your t's buddy.


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

Grumpy said:


> I foresee Ed gets ripped off by a huge corporation who shall remain nameless and we see Ed's product on the market with just enough variations that he can't sue or will be tied up in court for millenia... Ed ever see that movie where the guy sues Ford over the windshield wiper design?
> 
> I wish you the best of luck buddy, but if GAF is writing up the agreement, who do you think that agreement will favor? Dot your i's and cross your t's buddy.


It can't hurt just to preview someone else's document language though. I may pick up on something completely one sided or learn a new twist on how to protect myself as well.

Ed


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## apehangeralfy (Nov 10, 2008)

TOMROD said:


> How important is the UV factor?


It's up there for a few differant reasons...

With the Fl inspections it's not all that uncommon for a re-roof to be left in a dry-in stage for a week or two. On some home renovations with siding/stucko, then paint... I've seen re-roofs going into the month plus range. 

New construction, I have seen houses sit in dry-in conditions for 6 months. Not so much today as 2 years ago but I would say the avarage sit peroid is about 1-2 months.

If a storm hits and we are in the "do the most good for the most people" stage... One of our plans is to tear off what is needed and peel-n-stick it and move on, in that case 6 months would be the norn or longer. Our main goal will be to get everyone dry first, then go back and re-roof at a later date.


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## Mattp (Nov 30, 2008)

Grumpy said:


> I foresee Ed gets ripped off by a huge corporation who shall remain nameless and we see Ed's product on the market with just enough variations that he can't sue or will be tied up in court for millenia... Ed ever see that movie where the guy sues Ford over the windshield wiper design?
> 
> I wish you the best of luck buddy, but if GAF is writing up the agreement, who do you think that agreement will favor? Dot your i's and cross your t's buddy.


You might be right but if I had to put my money on anybody from this site or CT checking every last detail it would be Ed. With you a close second.


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

TomRod,

Any progress on assistance in getting a product patented and marketed yet?

Ed


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## FLRoofPro (Jun 17, 2009)

I have a 15 year history using GAF. Out of Tamko, Certainteed, OC, Atlas, they have always been good performers. The also have the strongest marketing tools, even though others are trying to catch up in that regard.

As for new products, I like the idea of a lower priced designers!


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

I think Certainteed has much better marketing programs currently as well as in the past and when we were gaf authorized, Certainteed has/had a much better training and certification system. That's not to say GAF hasn't caught up in that regard because I know they completely revamped their entire credentialed master elite authorized blah blah blah 6 or so years back. 

Everyone has their personal prefrence.


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## TOMROD (Apr 24, 2009)

Ed the Roofer said:


> You can send it to: [email protected] or through the Contact Us section on our website.
> 
> Does GAF have a specific program for co-venturing the development and marketing of other peoples patent ideas in place currently, or would everything be handled on a case by case criteria?
> 
> ...


I just spoke to our CTO (Chief Technology Officer) about this 2-days ago. He reviewed the legal agreement and didn't like the way it was written. He has them (our lawyers) re-writing it. His concern was 5 years down the road, what if someone comes up with the same idea or version of it, how does it effects the parties involved if no patent is filled. He strongly recommends you (or anyone with ideas) to first have it patented. A provisional is cheaper, but only lasts one year. I will keep you posted...


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## The Roofing God (Oct 31, 2008)

Slyfox said:


> Gaf/Elk are both still in paper around here,
> I believe there the only ones, not sure.
> 
> I like the plastic better because it's easier to contain the wrappers buy tying them into a ball, the paper will sometimes even blow out of the dumpster, like it was yesterday with the winds gusting up neat 20 mph.



I actually prefer the paper wrappers,the plastic hold the water,and the shingles are wet,and steaming in the sun,you need a system to control your wrappers is all Steve,I really don`t care to work with damp shingles,as they damage your hands more ,and are much slower as far as removing the wrapper,also the paper provides better protection from the sun on the roof,and paper is all recycled here in new york,The guys actually will sort it at the transfer stations


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## abcoroofing (Jul 29, 2009)

The only thing i would like is for the Gaf Virtual remodeler to work correctly because i have it in my site and you have to enter the zip code twice for it to work correctly... 

http://www.abcoroofingtn.com


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