# Project quote



## Alick (Sep 13, 2011)

I got a quote from a good roofing company, the issue with my roof is mainly the sunken decking that is caused by lightly deformed rafter over the past 20 years. The project is almost all inclusive, that covers: 
1) remove all the existing shingle and decking
2) put in sitering board against the rafter to even the decking
3) put in the new decking
4) all the metal work around it
5) change all soffit to be ventilated ones
6) Put in ice shield and underlayment
7) Blow in more insulation on top of the existing one – it’s peanut
The final price is around 24k, which is much higher than the other company (big one) who gave me the quote at around 18k, can you give me some idea in terms of the quote, is it too high?


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

What makes them "good"?

What kind of roof are they installing? What kind of roof is the other companies installing? Are the other companies not installing the same kind of roof and/or insulation? Are the other companies installing the vented soffits, are they including the wood, or will they charge you extra for the wood? 

You really gave us nothing to go on in determining price. Here are some factors, height of building, layers being torn off, slope of roof, type of protection necessary, ease of access for staging materials and removing debris, accessories and flashings and ventilation to be installed, quality of shingles. 

On a 2,000 sq ft home I can tell you that the difference from cheap chitty shingles to top of the line, seemingly the same to the average home owner but definetly not the same, can easily be $300. Type of ice shield to be installed, if I need 4 rolls, I can buy the $35 a roll cheap chit or I can buy the top of the line grace at $120 a roll for the same square footage. That's another $340... So you see things can start to add up.

There is just so much more details that I can go into but you really only painted a vague picture for us so you fill in the blanks for me.


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## Alick (Sep 13, 2011)

*Details*

Here is what exactly written in the proposal, this is the details I was told: 

-- Reomve all existing shingle, wood plank and other existing piece such as gutter etc. and dispose them
-- Sistering 2x8 on all 62 rafters to make the new deck flat and even
-- Install 0.5 inch plywood as the new deck
-- Install Diamond deck underlayment except the lower 6' which will use winterguard
-- 50 Year algae resistant shingle by certainteed
-- Install rafter vents throughout
-- Change all soffits to be ventilated
-- New fascia and fascia aluminum
-- New eaves trough and downpipe
-- Top up existing insulation to be R-50
-- Five star warranty

Any thought? Thanks,


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## RemStar (May 8, 2010)

Obviously you are not just shopping on price or you would already have went with the 18K quote. 

Looks good to me, I would personally choose the contractor that you feel is going to best comblete your project. All the materials they are using are great, premium stuff. You are getting a top of the line system there.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Not alot of detail to the proposal, but seems to be top of the line materials. Here is what is better than the average...

-diamond deck premium underlayment, much better than 15# felt.
-6' winter guard, most guys will probably do 3', I'd go into more detail about minimum code requirements if my son wern't sleeping on my lap. 
-those rafter baffles rafter vents not every insulation contractor will install. Cheap but highly effective!
-Certainteed 50 year shingles, Certainteed Premium, really top of the line. Though they have a Lifetime warranty now. Free upgrade. Most guys will probabgly use "30 year" shingles.
- r50 is probably well in excess of minimum code for your area, but what area are you in. 
- 5 star warranty is nice peace of mind I began adding it to all my contracts this year but could cost anywhere from $2-600 depending on the size of the average house.


All in all it looks ok, nice materials. But I have smoe questions/comments. If you are in an ice area you want the ice shield in your valleys and pre flashings. Infact this is probably included as it is a requirement of the 5 star. "all the metal work" does that mean new flashings? Pipes, chimneys, walls, skylights, 



Ask them for sucha premium company, why such a basic proposal?


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## Alick (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks both RemStar and Grumpy, I could not appreciate more. 

I was not shopping the lowest price, as I value the quality of the work and want to ensure my family will not suffer any consequence of a bad job. 

The sales guy of that company is a bit aggresive and didn't offer the details as I asked, so if ever I decided to give the contract to them, I will ask them to write down every bit of details in the contract so I don't need to worry anything during the project. 

Yes, the metal work includes downspout and flashing etc. All in all, I just want you guys to comment whether this quote is reasonable or not, as I know their base labour rate is $75/hour, which is a very good rate in most professions these days.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Here is a copy of my contract for your comparison...



*We propose to install CertainTeed Premium Integrity Roof System**™**…*​
1. Protect the house & landscape with Tarps and plywood then tear off the existing roof to the wood substrate (decking) and we will haul all debris away to a state of IL licensed recycling facility.
2. Remove any old roofing nails, refasten any loose wood and replace any rotten or damaged wood as necessary to properly install new roofing. Replaced wood will cost additional. ($X for one sheet of 1/2” CDX plywood or $X per linear foot of 1”X8” board)
3. Install 6’ of CertainTeed Winter Guard™ water proofing underlayment at the gutter lines, 3’ in the valleys and 18” around all penetrations such as the chimneys, skylights and where the roof meets the wall then cover all other exposed areas of the roof with CertainTeed Roofer Select™ premium asphalt saturated fiberglass reinforced felt.
4. Install CertainTeed Swift Start™ premium starter shingles at the edges of the roof including gutter lines and gables/rake edges. 
5. Install CertainTeed Landmark™ architectural asphalt shingles with fiberglass reinforcement nailed with a minimum of 4 nails per shingle. (Color:________________________________)
6. Install CertainTeed Shadow Ridge™ premium color matching cap shingles at all hips and ridges. 
7. All flashings will be replaced (as possible) using lead around plumbing pipes and color coordinated aluminum at all other areas including around the chimney. Where flashings meet masonry walls, the flashing will be stepped and tuck into the mortar joints then be sealed with high quality polyurethane sealant.
8. Install a new color-coordinated mushroom/breather vents on the roof and replace existing kitchen and/or bathroom vents with new baffled vents. 

9. Clean the work area of all job related debris by raking, sweeping and using a magnet to pick up any stray nails and clean gutters of all debris.


10. This installation carries the following warranties and guarantees...


· *Lifetime Manufacturer’s Shingle warranty* 


· *130 mile per hour Manufacturer’s wind resistance.*


· *10 Year Manufacturer’s Algae Resistance*


*· **CertainTeed 5-**STAR** Sure Start “Plus” Warranty* to remain intact and *No Leaks for at least 25-years. *​
*Total Price before options:*
*Dollars …………………...………..…………$.00*


Here is the reason IMO why the "sales" guy didn't give a more detailed proposal. Because a typical "sales" guy doesn't understand roofing anymore than what is printed on the borchure. By dummying down the contract it gives the company alot of freedom to make adjustments to the project as necessary.

As you can see I take the exact OPPOSITE approach. I'd rather hire a mediocore sales person with exceptional rofing knowledge, perhaps a retired roofer. In the end it's better for the company. No they won't set any records in sales volume but they might just set a record in customer satisfaction. Now that you say the sales guy was aggressive, why not tell us about the other company. I'd like to see what they are offering.

Learn more about Shingle Roofing
Learn more about Hire your contractor


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## Alick (Sep 13, 2011)

Thank you very much Grumpy, I will be out of town for 3 days and will post the details of the other quote to you around next Tuesday. I appreciate your insight and help, have a good weekend


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## copperjohn (Sep 19, 2011)

Actually, from what I see, the price is fairly good. As long as the quality remains. A pushy salesman is not always a good sign, just check some refferences and then make a judgement call. Make them specify the material specs and make sure they use hurricane clips on the plywood, that will help prevent warping in the future as well.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Just remember if it is not in writing, it does not exist. If I "tell" you I am going to do something, it is meaningless. It'll be your word against mine in a court of law and all that matters it the written word. Furthermore as a professional contractor, I am proud of the fact that I go the extra mile, therefore I put it in writing.


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## Alick (Sep 13, 2011)

*3rd quote - details*

As expected, here is the third quote I got:

Here is the 3rd quote I got:

STRIP AND RE-SHINGLE TO WOOD
1. Supply & Install Independance
2. Supply & Install Swiftstart
3. S&I Shadow Ridge 30 yr
4. Supply & Install Synfelt to balance of roof sheathing.
5. S & I Grace Ice & Water/ Shield Winterguard six feet.
6. Supply & Install Drip Edge
7. Supply & Install continuous Ridge Vent
8. Supply & Install Oatey Flash
9. Supply Disposal Trailer
10. Dispose of All Waste
Contract Subtotal Price: $ 7,711.54 + HST
Option with Landmark Limited Lifetime ( 3 bndls / square -100 sf) $ 5,682.00 + HST

Soffit Fascia Eavestrogh and & RWL
1. Remove existing soffit,fascia,eaves and downpipes from house. Exclude siding.
2. Supply & Install new aluminum vented Soffit
3. Supply & Install Custom aluminum Fascia and cover freize board
4. S & I new aluminum 5" Eavestrough
5. S&I new large 3x3 Downpipes
6. S&I new 3x3 aluminum Elbow
7. Seal all pertinent areas and clean up.
Contract Subtotal Price: $ 3,540.00 +HST

Carpentry work:
1. Sistering 2x8 on all 62 rafters to make the new deck flat and even.
2. Remove existing board roof and replace with new ½ inch plywood.
3. Install 0.5 inch plywood as the new deck.
4. Add Collar ties as required . Also add insulation baffles between joists.
5. Clean up.
Cost for Carpentry $ 8,250.00 + HST

10% discount will also be offered, so I am looking at a range between $17,769 and $19,833

Thanks Grumpy for all the replies so far, I could not appreciate more


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Not enough info again IMO. The guys in your area must not like words. 

Ice sheild appears to be only instaled at gutter. 6' is better than 3' But what about valleys and pre flashing areas such as walls, pipes and chimneys? Grace ice and water shield is a premium ice shield, more expensive than the certainteed winter guard.

I'm not sure what an oatey flash is.

Proposal makes no mention of the wood that your first proposal seemed to include. Will they charge you extra for the wood repair? Ahhh edit, never mind I see they added it after the fact. 

What type of vented soffit? Will it be solid solid solid vented, or wille ach panel be vented? Are the vents perforated or what? Definetly see a sample of this before you buy as I am imagining a very ugly vented soffit. You may consider a vented vinyl soffit sometimes called hidden vent or invisivent. Cosmetically it looks nicer than a typical vented aluminum soffit panel.


I'm not really sure what a 3x3 downspout is as a 2x3 is standard and 3x4 is over sized. 

Is the gutter (eavestrough) seamless? What thickness? I prefer .032 aluminum, most guys use .027 aluminum. It may not seem substantial but it makes a difference!


Why are they offering a 10% discount?


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## John's Roofing (Nov 16, 2011)

I do the same Grumpy ! ! When I give them an estimate, an explanation of that estimate also goes with it...explaining what product we will use on their roof and what work will be performed. The more you provide the customer, the better it is for both parties involved.


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