# Duro-Last "coming out with 10'roll goods"



## RooferJim

Duro-Last is coming out with 10' roll goods. I think there going to call it Duro-Ply . To me this is great news because I like there warranty and products but am not a huge fan of using the Grip pulls and prefab field sheets. I do really love the prefab curbs though. Its way way faster than dealing with welding on all your corners. This winter we will be doing a lot of it again it looks like.

RooferJim
www.jbennetteroofing.com


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## Grumpy

Didn't you post this once already Jim?

Them coming out with roll goods I think will increase their market share. This is the business model of every other manufacturer. Truth be told I have heard from several durolast contractors who get pissed off then the pre-fab roof is wrong and they have to deal with it in the field. I have never instaleld durolast myself, but if I were I think I would definetly prefer taking the rolls and assembling the roofing system on the roof like very other membrane we work with currently.


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## RooferJim

Not on this forum. Its an interesting peice of roofing news I think.


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## Grumpy

RooferJim said:


> Not on this forum. Its an interesting peice of roofing news I think.


 Must have been Face Book then. I could have sworn you posted it a few weeks ago though. Someone did and I think you are the only person I know who promoted DL.


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## RooferJim

I got to be honest. I love the stuff. I think it makes a great roof if installed by a concientious crew. Anyone who would bash it I feel dosen't understand it.


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## Grumpy

I have seen some of the roofers DL certifies. I have seen whole roof where the seams were done backwards bucking water, presumeably at the factory. DL says it's not a problem because their "product is seamless" :blink:

I'm sure not all DL roofers are bad and sure all DL roofs are not all abd, but my limited experience with the product has been poor to say the least. Not to mention the numerous internet threads I have read where they don't honor their warranty.

On the flip side, I have heard awesome reports of their marketing and business support of their certified roofers.


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## 1985gt

RooferJim said:


> I got to be honest. I love the stuff. I think it makes a great roof if installed by a concientious crew. Anyone who would bash it I feel dosen't understand it.



I haven't seen one in my area that I would even consider it being an OK roof. Piss poor installs, nasty baggy walls, brittleness and spider web cracking. Poor customer service. The fact everyone I have seen was a lay over, I've never seen one with a taper system just the 1/4 or 1/2 fan fold over the bur or other substrate. 

Now most of this could be cleared up with their "contractors". I will admit I have not done much research other then what we have experienced on tear offs. The membrane is what 28 -32 mils thick? 

Maybe with them offering rolled goods it will help dunno, I would much rather stick to the manufactures we work with. 

Sorry I do not have a high opinion of it, it ranks up there with SPF "roofing". "The worlds best roof" Sorry it is not.


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## RooferJim

We use there 50 mil usually. our walls are nice and tight.


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## 1985gt

The one's I have seen are never 50 mil. Do you glue the walls or use the membrane stretcher?


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## RooferJim

depends on how high the wall is. If its over a foot I like to glue it but you don't have to. Like anything else,If a crew takes a little more time they can make it look good and tight.


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## 1985gt

I didn't even know duro last had glue, I have never seen one wall glued. Granted they don't have a huge presence in our area but there are a good number of them around. Ever roof we do if there is any wall it gets glued. I didn't know there was another way.


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## smalpierre

gt, I haven't installed any of it yet, but I'll be going to their training later this year. The company I work for uses Duro-Last - we're finishing a pretty large residential job soon (or maybe we're done already?). It's mechanically fastened, but when I was up there I saw buckets of glue, and there were tubes of adhesive for caulk guns too.

The idea of a prefab roof seems good on paper, but some things are just better done in the field. My personal preference would be 10' goods and a robotic welder, but the accessories they offer, like the corners mentioned above really do seem like a great idea.

My boss really likes the company since they seem to be concerned with making a quality product rather than just making as much money as possible. I get to meet them at the end of the month at the annual sales conference.

You going Jim?


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## RooferJim

I went with to the DL convention in Florida last year. Im still not sure about this year though, very busy.But I might.


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## 1985gt

smalpierre said:


> gt, I haven't installed any of it yet, but I'll be going to their training later this year. The company I work for uses Duro-Last - we're finishing a pretty large residential job soon (or maybe we're done already?). It's mechanically fastened, but when I was up there I saw buckets of glue, and there were tubes of adhesive for caulk guns too.
> 
> The idea of a prefab roof seems good on paper, but some things are just better done in the field. My personal preference would be 10' goods and a robotic welder, but the accessories they offer, like the corners mentioned above really do seem like a great idea.
> 
> My boss really likes the company since they seem to be concerned with making a quality product rather than just making as much money as possible. I get to meet them at the end of the month at the annual sales conference.
> 
> You going Jim?



Yeah looks good on paper but seems to be a PITA to install, I've heard they were going to offer it as roll goods but don't know and honestly don't care, would be a good move for them though.

Honestly I spit my pop out of my mouth at your last statement. When 8 year old roofs shatter from hail and D/L won't call the customers back for over a year seems to look the like the opposite.


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## Pie in the Sky

1985gt said:


> Honestly I spit my pop out of my mouth at your last statement. When 8 year old roofs shatter from hail and D/L won't call the customers back for over a year seems to look the like the opposite.


 OUCH!!!! 

I like the sales guys business cards printed on their membrane... :laughing:

*GT* - I wonder if the brittleness comes from plasticizer migration due to the use of a plasticizer with a low molecular weight (cheaper?). Some neat info on performance of PVC in this whitepaper by Stan Graveline. Just keep in mind they were testing a different PVC, Im sure you can tell which one by the project locations.

http://www.roofingcenter.org/syncsh...b Testing of Poly Vinyl Chloride Roofs(1).pdf

*Dustin T. Smoot, RRC, RRO, LEED AP| Forensic Specialist | Pie Forensic Consultants* | Corporate Headquarters: 6275 Joyce Drive, Suite 200 | Arvada, CO 80403-7541 | Nationwide: 1.866.552.5246 | Local: 303.552.0177 | www.pieforensic.com | http://blog.pieforensic.com/


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## smalpierre

1985gt said:


> Yeah looks good on paper but seems to be a PITA to install, I've heard they were going to offer it as roll goods but don't know and honestly don't care, would be a good move for them though.
> 
> Honestly I spit my pop out of my mouth at your last statement. When 8 year old roofs shatter from hail and D/L won't call the customers back for over a year seems to look the like the opposite.



Where I come from it's "soda" not "pop". Where I reside now, it's "coke" regardless of brand 

I don't have much personal experience with it, but I'm looking forward to the conference, since I'm always looking to learn anything - good, bad, or indifferent. Membrane roofs are a weak point for me anyway. I'm big on old school stuff, because it's been around a long time, and is proven or it's long gone. I like slate and tile. I like copper, and I'm learning how to solder it now  I've soldered / brazed plenty of electrical and pipe joints, but soldering sheet metal is new to me. Sure it's a dying art, but that makes it that much more valuable!

We are a conscientious installer of any product we install. We aren't cheap - but we also aren't "cheap". If the owner had the experiences you describe, we wouldn't install it.

Now for a diversion ... I got on an EPDM low slope today that looked nothing like the EPDM I've seen before. It was thick, and reinforced. Looked great other than the leak which wasn't necessarily the material's fault. It was a tough spot to roof with anything.

I'm always the guy to be looking for the absolute best way to do things - and I've heard a lot of good things about IB and Sarnafil. I'm not a DL convert per se, but they are going to have their chance - especially if they come out with 10' goods. I've heard good and bad about every membrane though, except for IB and Sarnafil.

Anybody have anything bad to say about them?


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## Pie in the Sky

I can only comment on Sarnafil. I have worked with this membrane for the last 10+ years specifying it and watching it be installed. I have toured the plant, welded it, questioned chemists… This is an old company with an amazing business model. Then they were bought by Sika. This has only helped improve the business aspect. These guys aren’t sitting in board meeting talking about how they can change their product to make it “More economical”. They have a quality product they stick with. They use their efforts to market and educate. Also, a lot of manufacturers will tout that they put all their warranty fees into an account for future warranty payouts. These piles of money are huge. These same companies are paying out large losses. Sarnafil rarely pays out a large loss in fact I have seen them pay out when it was a contractors error just in good faith. (I believe the above fact is because of the quality of the contractors these some of these manufacturers approve) 

I have not worked with IB, Have heard of them but Im guessing their regional. Anyone have any History on them or know who makes there membrane?

*Dustin T.** Smoot, RRC, RRO, LEED AP**| Forensic Specialist | Pie Forensic Consultants* | Corporate Headquarters: 6275 Joyce Drive, Suite 200 | Arvada, CO 80403-7541 | Nationwide: 1.866.552.5246 | Local: 303.552.0177 | www.pieforensic.com | http://blog.pieforensic.com/


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## Miami Roofer

Here in Miami, Sarnafil is considered premium product- as is Fibertite & I'll mention Soprema as well. These are generally specified systems and used on A class commercial buildings. We really don't have too many Industrial buildings. The Miami-Dade school board specifies Soprema, the Fort Lauderdale airport recently installed F/T and lots of roof consultants spec Sarnafil. You generally don't find hacks installing their products.

IB is not really specified in my area, especially in the commercial sector. I'm sure you could submit it as an equal though. I am an IB installer and I happen be extremely fond of the product. I use on commercial and residential installs when applicable. It does cost more than distributor stocked membranes but I find it to be a superior product. You will not find a negative review of their membrane.

The prefabbed and welded sheets are D/L niche. That is what they are known for and appreciated for by their installers. I think the 10' sheets will prompt more contractors to give them a chance and should open up new doors for them so to speak.

http://www.affordableroofingcontractors.com


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## Pie in the Sky

Good input Miami.. 

To me it seems DL's only downfalls are who they will let install it and the fact that it’s so sensitive to hail after a few years. Hail claims are part of my bread and butter. All thermoplastics are susceptible to hail damage, but it just seems like DL gets damaged first and at the lowest age. Some areas it doesn’t matter but here in CO Hail is a big deal. 

Do you have 10+ year old DL roofs you monitor? is the membrane becoming brittle? still weldable? 

I like Fibertite, the Sheet is actually a KEE but basically the same as a PVC. They have all that Evaloy in the sheet. I like them, and if Puncture resistance is your thing, FT is the membrane to go with. But really to me all that Evaloy and Puncture resistance might be overkill. I’d rather have the thickness of a competing sheet for the same price. I look at it like Aspirin. If 3 is good is 6 better??? Not really for my purposes...


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## 1985gt

smalpierre said:


> I don't have much personal experience with it, but I'm looking forward to the conference, since I'm always looking to learn anything - good, bad, or indifferent. Membrane roofs are a weak point for me anyway. I'm big on old school stuff, because it's been around a long time, and is proven or it's long gone. I like slate and tile. I like copper, and I'm learning how to solder it now  I've soldered / brazed plenty of electrical and pipe joints, but soldering sheet metal is new to me. Sure it's a dying art, but that makes it that much more valuable!
> 
> I'm sure there are some quality D/l installers, sadly I have not come across a D/L roof yet that wasn't something I would be proud of if I installed it. I do love how their insulation says "the worlds best roof" I *hate* soldering, only because there are two of us here that can do it and do it well. I've made a number of copper bird bath and fountain liners rather odd for a roofing company but hey it payed real well. I think its something good to know. I've been teaching my friend who started working here a few years ago. Its something that takes time, atleast to make it look good.
> 
> We are a conscientious installer of any product we install. We aren't cheap - but we also aren't "cheap". If the owner had the experiences you describe, we wouldn't install it.
> 
> Glad to hear it. As I said before I'm sure they have quality installers I have just yet ran across one.
> 
> 
> Now for a diversion ... I got on an EPDM low slope today that looked nothing like the EPDM I've seen before. It was thick, and reinforced. Looked great other than the leak which wasn't necessarily the material's fault. It was a tough spot to roof with anything.
> 
> Bread and butter, thats what EPDM is to us. Reinforced EPDM are somewhat rare around here although I have installed a few of them. Done a number of 60 and 90 mil. I honestly don't want to count the 1,000 of sq's I've installed of it. TBH I'm glad I'm a estimator now  single plys are too damn hard on your knees.
> 
> 
> I'm always the guy to be looking for the absolute best way to do things - and I've heard a lot of good things about IB and Sarnafil. I'm not a DL convert per se, but they are going to have their chance - especially if they come out with 10' goods. I've heard good and bad about every membrane though, except for IB and Sarnafil.
> 
> Anybody have anything bad to say about them?


I've heard great things about Sarnafil. We bid a job that was spec'd Sarnafil but we an not an approved installer so we got Versico approved. 

It has to be something to do with the chemical make up of the sheet that makes them brittle. I'm no chemist so I can not really comment. From my experience it's too thin of a sheet also. I know they make a couple different thicknesses I don't remember exactly what they are but I would guess they have to make them somewhat thin because of the weight to get the whole package up to the roof.


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## Pie in the Sky

"worlds greatest roof" :laughing:

Well there you have it, the answer... Now Im out of a job.... 

I always called DL "Roof in a bag" :yes:

I am sure they have some good intallers to who can put a nice roof down outside hail country, I too have not come across one. I have come across some great salesman though...


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## 1985gt

Pie in the Sky said:


> "worlds greatest roof" :laughing:
> 
> Well there you have it, the answer... Now Im out of a job....
> 
> I always called DL "Roof in a bag" :yes:
> 
> I am sure they have some good intallers to who can put a nice roof down outside hail country, I too have not come across one. I have come across some great salesman though...


Agreed


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## Miami Roofer

Do you have 10+ year old DL roofs you monitor? is the membrane becoming brittle? still weldable? [/FONT

I don't have any that are ten years old or that i've even seen that old. I only installed D/L a couple times and that was for a friend who managed another roofing company. Truth be told, we never really became efficient at installing it either. We needed a couple more under our belt. I did make sure our roofs looked good though.:thumbup:

http://www.affordableroofingcontractors.com


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## LCG

*Old News*

Old News. Duro already has rolled goods. They come in 5' rolls I belive. We installed Duro for a couple years and their contractor service is great! The problem lies in the fact that their 40mil sheet is covering america and failing at rapid paces. It was installed by contractors all over Wyoming 15 years ago and now we are replacing it with Sarna, Fibertie, and IB due to failure. I have since parted ways with Duro. I really did like their support but I get even better support with IB and I can sleep at night. I wish Duro would have done a better job with damage control. Just punch in Duro-Last online and see the barage of negatives. It's too bad really. Their 60 mil was all we installed for the last year of service we did for Duro and it is a solid product. I don't understand how guys screw it up really. They took the technical work out it. Unfortunatley they put the idiots in the feild installing it.


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