# How would you spec this job? 16 stories, concrete deck, tear off, 3' parapet walls on



## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

How would you spec this job? 16 stories, concrete deck, tear off, 3' parapet walls on all sides, about 10-15 squares. The roofs will have decks built atop of them. How would you spec this job?


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## O'Donnell Roofing & Solar (Jan 17, 2011)

Good one,

I am not a fan of mechanical fasteners in concrete, that being said,

A recovery board will need to be placed on the concrete, maybe ISO or dens deck <>loose laid.
Then use a 60 mil EPDM, stone mat fabric to protect the EPDM,
then interlocking pavers as ballast.
This will give you 110 mph wind uplift. 
The pavers may be substituted for the decks. They look nice.


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## Billy Luttrell (May 3, 2010)

You ever tried quickstick? I am not 100% sure they offer anything for concrete decks, I would have to find my notes from the demonstration or call my rep. If they do, you would still have to have a rep present to do a pull-test. If you can get an adhesive to lay down your insulation I would 100% go with a fully adhered epdm. 

The using pavers for a ballasted system is a helluva good idea, I would just worry about having to fight the wind at 16 stories trying to get the pavers down.

If that is not a possible option....3 ply + capsheet.


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## Pie in the Sky (Dec 21, 2011)

I would spec an IRMA system made from sarnafil Self Adhering (that orange stuff that cant be expostd to light) with Westile Pavers or Light Guard. Wouldnt need to build decks just dividers. Could be pretty nice besides the wind. Might as well put some planters up there too.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Ok I was waiting for a few replies before I posted my opinion/specification. 

Here is what I cam up with: Tear off, taper if necessary with polyiso and install 1/2" HD ISO or Denseck all set in olybond, fully adhered 60 mil PVC, deck or pavers by others. 


This is a very upscale condominium. I believe they have decks because they want decks. The one unit has a very ncie living area in the sky, with a nice patio setup and potted trees and other accessories you'd find ain a back yard. Pavers would likely be the most affordable. If they want the deck I would provide a roll or two of walk way for the carpenters to use as pad beneath the deck. If they opt for pavers I would insist upon, or install, some kind of slip sheet or sacrificial membrane. 


I'm debating on the HD iso vs the densdeck. Haven't decided yet. Opinions?

The taper system causes me a little concern if pavers are installed, unless pedastols are used to level out the walk surface.


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## O'Donnell Roofing & Solar (Jan 17, 2011)

I think you will find that you won't need to use taper insulation.
I am betting the concrete deck has a 1/8 per foot slope.

Also, I like loose laid insulation because in 25 yrs when the next roofer
needs to re-roof he will curse you for gluing to the concrete.

IMO


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Not sure loose laid will be acceptable because it's a high rise, and not sure how long the roof will stay exposed before the deck is installed. 

As for the other rofoer cursing me, that's his problem.


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## Dannyphily (Feb 27, 2012)

I have used a apoxie the dubble tubes that mix togeather threw the tip. They have a peace of equitment that holds 5 or 6 tubes or a dubble caulk gun. Its like spray foam prime the deck then I think the specs called for 5 beads per board. It expands fast lay the ico down I was using 4x4 peaces. And we did the tapperd system. I don't no the budget but if The walls are in good shape. You could build the deck on top of the walls if they use a door to access the roof. The stringers for the steps will be the only thing touching the roof. Just in case you have to access the roof you don't have to take up the deck. Just make sure the railing is SRONG. Good luck to you


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## shazapple (Dec 3, 2010)

I'd have to agree an IRMA would be best. The problem with pavers, at least in our area, is that they like to break down from freeze-thaw.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Shaz freeze thaw is the same problem here with the cheap pavers. I'm guessing the more premium pavers which are wet cast and seem to have a much less permiable surface would last longer but at the end of the day all masonry products are subject to freeze thaw.

Danny, that's the Olybond I think you are talking about.


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## 1985gt (Dec 21, 2010)

What kind of warranty are they looking for, you could always do a 30 year EPDM. I would use a Iso nail board (osb glued to the iso) or Densdeck over the top and 1000% Fully adhere it no matter what you use. As for the deck on top, I would give them idea's and leave it up to the owner/management company. You could always cover the whole thing in walk way pads and they could put wood or what ever over the top.


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## Pie in the Sky (Dec 21, 2011)

Grump, Check these out. 
http://www.tclear.com/roofing-systems/light-guard.php
Its a neat product, all interlocking. I’ve spec’ed them several times before. 

You would have to loose lay most membranes but can temporarily ballast them. I like the Sarnafil self-adhered cause they will actually warrant it INCLUDING REMOVAL of overburden (I think). The self-adhered has a foam backing, sticks to primed concrete well BUT the beauty of it is it can bridge imperfections and if somehow a hole gets punched in the membrane because its fully adhered to concrete it still will not leak. 

I don’t think gluing down insulation is a bad Idea (I would recommend the Dens deck) but I would encourage them to invest in a maintenance plan where you proactively look for deficiencies. If you get a leak, it could leak for years saturating the insulation before it even shows up. You could also recommend replacing the membrane after 20 or 25 years whether it needs it or not to reduce the chance of wet insulation. If you can reuse insulation on a high rise like that, you’ve saved a TON of money on a re-roof.


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## shakertown (Oct 27, 2011)

*Irma*

with a concrete deck, the IRMA system should be used. it will be there longer than any of us.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

City of Chicago code is very quirky. A reflective membrane must be used unless covered by deck, but try arguing that with some of the inspectors. You'll hear "I don't see any deck", some are real A holes, so it is our practice to ONLY install energy star rated roofign systems in Chicago. Also again nobody really understand the codes even the guys who wrote it but in speaking with a rep fromt he Chicago Roofing Contractor's Association, as well as a few manufacturers reps, we all kind of agree partial tear offs are not allowed in the City of Chicago any more. Meaning you can't reuse old insulation. If you tear it off, you have to tear it ALL off. 

I'm trying to get my hands on the competiting proposals to see their specs. I was told by the maintenance man one says "Any replaced wood substrate will cost extra." I replied, "...but this is a concrete deck." He chuckled and said "I know." I asked to see it and he offered to share it with me if I met him for coffee last night, but I had my kids, and the bid is due today. I just got off the phone with the property manager reminding me to submit. The maintenace man claimed he couldn't fax it, I guess he just wanted a free cup of coffee or doesn't want to ask for his "cut" over the phone lol.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

1. Tear off the existing roof down to the substrate and haul the debris away to a state of IL licensed recycling facility. Substrate will be inspected for areas of damage. If any damage exists, the Purchaser will be advised. 
2. Cut the bottom of the aluminum siding where the roof meets the siding wall. 
3. The masonry parapet walls will be inspected and if any repair is necessary to properly install the new roof, the Purchaser will be advised. 
4. Install a base layer of 1 ½” polyisocyanurate over the roof substrate where torn and install a layer of ½” DensDeck High Density (900 PSI) cover board. Insulation sheets will be set in low rise polyurethane adhesive. Tapered insulation if necessary will cost additional (to be determined upon core cut).
5. Install a fully adhered layer of 0.60 white PVC membrane over the insulation board. This is a *20-year rated roofing system by the manufacturer*. Roof membrane will wrap 2’ up the wall and be fully adhered to the walls. 
6. All flashings and roof accessories will be installed including fastening the roof to the walls with termination bar, install T joint covers in the seams of the roof, install compression flashing around the plumbing pipes, and install pitch pans around one pipes and wires at one AC unit.
7. Existing drain hardware will be reused at roof drains. If new Marathon Universal clamping rings or OMG Uflow drain inserts are necessary they will be provided and installed at an additional $350 per unit. 
8. Install a new treated board at the area where the siding was cut and clad board with custom bent aluminum.
9. Provide but not install 3 rolls (34”x50’) of walk way pad for use by others to install the roof deck. 
10. Clean the work area of all job related debris on a daily basis. 
11. Note: a core sample was not taken at the time of inspection. Therefore some pricing is based upon educated guesses and a core sample will be necessary to confirm the scope of work and pricing before the start of the work. 
12. No work to the main roof area at the South West. Work only to the 15 I, 15 J, and adjoining deck/patio roof areas. 
13. New deck(s) construction by others.




Only because I didn't have time to further research your guys suggestions or go with some new to me systems and I am already out of my comfort zone due to logistics, I am going with my original specification above. I'm coming up with $70k for 3,200 sq ft. I'm figuring 5 crew days including setup and cleanup. Fingers crossed, hoping 70 is enough.


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## LCG (May 30, 2011)

Grumpy, i'm with you. Fully adhered is the way to go. Get your half sheets right and glue that sucker down.


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