# Underlayment Opinions



## jshort12

Hey guys, im just curious if many guys are using the products like GAF deck armor instead of felt paper? It seems like it would be a good product just want some opinions before I try it.


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## LCG

DUDE,

I'm happy to see that you have finally crawled out from under the rock you've been hiding under!:laughing:

Most all synthetics are great underlayments. Our company prefers Titanium UDL30 and UDL50. Grace is always good. Feltex, Permaguard, among others.

Go for it and don't look back. The mineral felt underlayments are so piss poor these days it's a wonder they still produce it!


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## Pie in the Sky

I've always thought the weight of rolls, coverage, and speed of installation with the wide rolls would cancel out any additional cost... I have no Idea though what are the contractor thoughts?

D


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## Grumpy

Size of rolls and weight being a factor doesn't cancel out the added costs on a small residential. It's going to take the same ammount of time, maybe save a couple minutes. I laugh when the manufacturers tell me "you'll make it up on time savings" I don't mind laughing in their face either. 

The IKO rep once told us at a seminar that if we use their shingle the nails we save will pay for our workers comp. In the middle of the seminar I interrupted and asked him very loudly if he has any clue what he hell he is talking about. I just said what everyone was thinking. 


We typically use the Certainteed fiberglass felt, 4 square roll. We use the CertainTeed Winterguard or the Grace (regular) ice shield.


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## RoofPro

*Try it*

From what I’ve seen Grumpy most of the contractors in my area that try the synthetics don’t go back to felt. I can’t recall anyone saying it saved them money, most say the biggest benefit is improved walking surface – better traction than felt, a will not rip under foot.


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## dDubya

We switched to titanium udl30 for a while and yes it goes faster IMO. You get an extra 12" of goods each roll. It does NOT rip, so think about all those times you were fighting felt in the wind...

Also it rolls out much easier than 30lb(and 15#).

Saying that, we have went back to using tar felt for 4 & 5/12's, and use Titanium on steeper jobs. $10/sq for 30lb compared to $14/sq for titanium. That's a hard bullet to bite when things get tight.

I have no love for any other synthetic I've tried. If your roofing them the same day, they are OK. Put a bit of chalk dust on them or a bit of water from wet shingle pallets, and your going for a ride.

Grumpy: Was IKO referring to the extra ~1/2" of exposure on their shingles saving the nails?? bahaha


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## RoofPro

*Article on Synthetic Underlayments*

The JLC (Journal of Light Construction) January edition has an article titled: "Do Synthetic Underlayment’s make for Better Roofs?" . 
The link below will take you the tease – which includes one of two tables comparing the features of several brands including weight, roll size, maximum UV exposer and per sqft cost. No real new information here but the article is well written and the I found the tables useful.

http://www.jlconline.com/underlayments/do-synthetic-underlayments-make-for-better-roofs.aspx


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## Chandlers Roofing

We use GAF's Tiger Paw underlayment almost exclusively for our shingle projects and have had terrific results. Our guys love it, very walkable and easy to handle.

Chandler's Roofing - Los Angeles and Orange County Roofers


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## wisconsinroofingsystems

I don't understand that thinking, your saying you lose jobs for $120 upgrade to an underlayment that is so far superior to felt that there really is no comparison? I think if you are bidding that tight it must be tough to even make any money. upsell upsell upsell. Good products sell themselves, poor ones just fail.


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## epfeiffer

*Sharkskin Synthetic*

Our company recently started offering "Sharkskin" Synthetic Underlayment. We have found a lot of contractors like it for a variety of reasons. They have 4 different "varieties", all of which have a unique slip resistant pattern, all can be attached using only standard fasteners(no plastic caps required), has a 6 or 12 month UV rating depending on product, is lightweight, has a high tensile strength yield, as well as minimal thermal movement(expansion/contraction). The rolls all come in 4' widths which are nice on eaves and valleys instead of installing two rows of 3' for code compliance. The self adhesive, which is their version of ice and water shield, installs at zero degrees and rising unlike most other ice and water and can be installed in a light mist or frost!

We manufacture metal roofing and their radiant version has a metallic foil that creates a radiant barrier to reduce the amount of heat making it into your insulation. We regularly offer $50 at trade shows to anyone who can tear the product. We still have our original 50 dollar bill.


Check out some of these websites for more info on radiant barriers:

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/consumer/buildings/homes/faq.htm#radiant

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications/html/fsec-cr-1231-01/


Our company has even gone so far as to include Sharkskin as a requirement for our weather tight warranties.

Weights are as follows:

Comp- 10 SQ roll 38Lbs
Ultra- 10 SQ roll 48Lbs
Ultra Radiant- 10SQ roll 65Lbs
Ultra S/A- 5 SQ roll 65Lbs

Not too sound like too much of a cheerleader, but our company is very quality driven, and this product has helped us to maintain that image.

With that being said I can imagine not every application will require, or even necessitate, a synthetic underlayment due to the premium cost. I would definitely install these products over any other on my house, or anywhere else I wanted the added assurance of another waterproof barrier underneath my roofing.


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