# GAF vs. OWENS CORNING



## ethanlee73

This is just a quick question I have recently heard from another residential roofer. He told me that the shingles are applied and job is complete, it takes Owens Corning shingles 3-4 weeks to properly seal??? He said GAF seals immediately. This was on the 30 year dimensional. Which is a better quality and not just which one will make you a Platinum Certified Gold Member for pushing they're product. Is Owens truly a bit better quality and is the sealing deal a freakin' hoax??? Thanks folks!!


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## Ed the Roofer

Just my opinion, but they should both seal in about the same amount of time, but if one were more tacky and sealed first, from past history, it would be the Owens Corning line of shingles, especially their new Duration style.

As long as you don't get any blow offs during the waiting time, it really shouldn't matter though, with the exception of a new construction area with a lot of dust that blows around, which might contaminate the space between the sealant and the shingle.

Ed


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## ethanlee73

Thanks Ed. I appreciate your reply. That surprised me to when the guy told me GAF sealed faster. Thanks again!


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## user182

I've used OC and they seal down the same day you lay them.​


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## FLRoofPro

Our guys really like the new Duration OCs. We sell mostly Duration Premiums, but they have reported the same with 30s. The Durations have a wider nail strip and added sealing strips compared to any other archs on the market. Smart shingle.

Never had any complaints with Timberlines either. They have always performed well.


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## Grumpy

In a warm spring or fall day they'll usually seal the same day. in the summer they are sealing as you're laying them sometimes. In the winter you'll have to wait a few weeks or months for them to seal. 

I've very liittle experience with GAF as I haven't installed them in years and even less experience with OC as I only have done their products a few times.


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## kubie

ive used both and they seem to seal down fine. same day most of the time when its sunny. oh and certainteed expanded their nailing range too. no more having to hit the 2 little lines. lol


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## Johnk

FLRoofPro said:


> Our guys really like the new Duration OCs. We sell mostly Duration Premiums, but they have reported the same with 30s. The Durations have a wider nail strip and added sealing strips compared to any other archs on the market. Smart shingle.
> 
> Never had any complaints with Timberlines either. They have always performed well.


The Durations "sure nail" is a joke.If you nail where they tell you to ,you don't hit the double lam.Don't get me wrong,OC's are good,but just nail as low as you can.The only real wide nailing strip is the 'zone" by Malarkey.


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## Rex

I have never experienced such a sealing problem. Our company has been roofing for 87 years, all brands over the years. Owens Corning Duration seems to work very well in my area of CT. Just had serious sustained 75 MPH wind & rain. Declared a Federal Disaster Area. Not 1 Owens Corning blow off. That's good enough for me.


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## Slyfox

Johnk said:


> The Durations "sure nail" is a joke.If you nail where they tell you to ,you don't hit the double lam.Don't get me wrong,OC's are good,but just nail as low as you can.The only real wide nailing strip is the 'zone" by Malarkey.


I guess I missed this post originally but since Rex re-opened it,
The purpose of the sure nail is to eliminate the need for fasteners to penetrate both portions of the shingle.
I have only installed them twice so far so guess I'll see in 10,20,30 years from now if it works out or not, just like with the "zone" all tho Malarkey is not sold here in my area that I know of so will wait and take your word on that.


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## peterjames

Professional installers have long preferred the rugged, dependable performance that only a GAF roof can offer, and have made it the #1-selling brand in North America


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## RooferJim

GAF is a better shingle period. the solid seal strip can and has been a problem with OC shingles.


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## DFWRoofing

I find little difference. What I dislike about both is that they can be purchased at the home improvement stores for just about the same price as I can get them at a wholesale.


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## kathy

Owens Corning is the choice I would go with. My company has used GAF in the pass and we have had problems with them blowing of the roof tooo many times, which I had to put claims in for a couple of homes we shingled. from there on out we have used Owens Corning. not sure if GAF has changed the quality of their product or not


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## Ridgewalker

I have always liked the Elk Prestque line. Its what is used mostly in Ca. but since GAF bought them out its gone down hill. :thumbdown: They are thinner, less` flexable and more granual loss. It looks like all they retained from elk were the color charts and the name.


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## Rex

*Hoax*



ethanlee73 said:


> This is just a quick question I have recently heard from another residential roofer. He told me that the shingles are applied and job is complete, it takes Owens Corning shingles 3-4 weeks to properly seal??? He said GAF seals immediately. This was on the 30 year dimensional. Which is a better quality and not just which one will make you a Platinum Certified Gold Member for pushing they're product. Is Owens truly a bit better quality and is the sealing deal a freakin' hoax??? Thanks folks!!


I can' believe this is a serious comment. Hoax indeed. Sealing is dependent upon temperature. We have installed many different brands of shingles. Owens Corning has been one of the fastest sealing brands. With 6 nails per shingle it shouldn't even be an issue with any brand, with 4 nails per shingle it could be in cold temperatures. Shingles are stiffer in cold weather and could take some time to warm up settle down and seal (all brands other than modified bitumen shingles which are very flexible even in cold temperatures, but not widely manufactured or available). Owens Corning advertises 110 MPH wind resistance with only 4 nails per shingle on the Duration (30 year). Building code required 6 nails per shingle in coastal areas should even make it better. Most other brands require 6 nails per shingle, as well as seal down starters on rakes as well as eaves to increase their wind resistance from 70 MPH to 110 MPH in 30 year laminates.


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## PTROOFING

*GAF vs. OC*

We install GAF/ELK Timberline as our #1 choice, but on 3 story building with no trees to block wind, we usually install OC Duration. We really like the Duration Designer Colors as well, but GAF is our choice for a normal 30YR shingle. Never had a problem with either.

BTW.....

I installed a Timberline roof on MY HOUSE 2 YEARS ago using 15# felt and NO Ice Guard in valleys or eaves and have never had a problem. Its the way the roof is installed IMO. We even cut the 15# felt in the middle of the valleys to get a nice, tight shingled valley, old school trick!

BUT.........On our jobs, we install ice guard and Titanium felt, just to cover ourselves.


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## PTROOFING

Rex said:


> I can' believe this is a serious comment. Hoax indeed. Sealing is dependent upon temperature. We have installed many different brands of shingles. Owens Corning has been one of the fastest sealing brands. With 6 nails per shingle it shouldn't even be an issue with any brand, with 4 nails per shingle it could be in cold temperatures. Shingles are stiffer in cold weather and could take some time to warm up settle down and seal (all brands other than modified bitumen shingles which are very flexible even in cold temperatures, but not widely manufactured or available). Owens Corning advertises 110 MPH wind resistance with only 4 nails per shingle on the Duration (30 year). Building code required 6 nails per shingle in coastal areas should even make it better. Most other brands require 6 nails per shingle, as well as seal down starters on rakes as well as eaves to increase their wind resistance from 70 MPH to 110 MPH in 30 year laminates.


Indeed.......

But We have installed almost every brand of 30yr dimensionals all year round with out a problem. We have shoveled snow off roofs in Jan and Feb to re-roof homes and NEVER had a call back with any shingle manufacturer, although we WONT use Tamko products. We 5-6 nail all shingles, all year, and in winter have them delivered warm.


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## Johnk

The Durations have a wider nail strip and added sealing strips compared to any other archs on the market. Smart shingle.Quote FLflatRoof

I guess you have never used Malarkey's 'zone'


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## Johnk

On a hot day Gaf/elk seal as fast as you put them on.:yes:


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## MGP Roofing

I was working for a company that used GAF-Elk during the changeover, the 30yr definitely did get thinner. I use CertainTeed these days, thicker shingle and backed by a strong importer which is important here, there's lots of roofs here with no warranty backup because the importer/installer has gone out of business.


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## cavesrus

We use certianteed as #1. Tamko #2
Gaf #3 oc is the worst of all don't stand behind there warranties at all.


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## americanroofing

We have installed 800 GAF roofs in the last year and a hand full of oc, tamko and ct. I've only on roof that lost shingles after the install and I was because they hadn't sealed yet. It was a GAF 3-t shingle. I installed lifetime GAF shingles on my house last winter and they didn't set till it warmed up in the spring. They are very ridged shingles though. My roof is a 12/12 and wouldn't loose shingles easily from wind anyway. We lay GAF though on most cases and its a good product.
____________________________
American Roofing Company
www.roofyou.com


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## danielbyrne

*Atlas all the way*

Atlas. The best thing going.

www.smarthomesllc.net


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## acc

we mostly use Gaf shingles, here in Canada where there isn't much heat lol, Gaf shingles seal within the hour, we have checked many times again and again, but when temperature drops thats a different story.


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## charlotteroofers

I haven't noticed this I suppose because here in the South when its hot the shingles seal as soon as they touch down...lol......

I am big on Certainteed products, good quality but I like them mainly because they have a plant here in NC and my local Rep is awesome. GAF Reps are non existent here, it took 17 days to get a call back after dialing them about 6 times.


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## acc

Here in Atlantic Canada , 95% of roofing companies tar their shingles year round, because of the high wind areas and the fact that we never get a lot of warm weather. We mostly use , Gaf, IKO or BP product. The only product here that has a agressive sealant on the shingle would be (Gaf) Timberline (laminated shingle) . therefore these can be installed from may- sept with no tar, which we take full advantage of. Gaf 3-tab are not very popular up here, IKO has that market.


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## RoofPerfection

I have always been a GAF guy. We have spent ALOT of money on them. Now a days, your paying for there amazing marketing and not better made shingle. OC, GAF are not that big of difference until lately and the Sure Smart Strip was added. This eliminates any sealing issues bc you are no longer waiting for a sealant step to adhere to ganrules, and not having to worry about granules typically compromising the seal the the coarse below. Fact is granules fall off over time and with the strip a perfect bond can be made. Also the strong reenforced strip allows much stronger and wider place to nail. All you have to do if your a sales man is hammer ten GAF small pieces and ten OC pieces every other one. Lt the homeowner use there own judgment after trying to pull them off. It is a no brainer. There other thing I like better is the larger nailing area, you have a small area your guys have to hit in order to get both layers. I will say the info and training stuff GAF has is priceless if your the sale man and not the owner of the company or homeowner. GAF is consistantly 10 a square more no matter who you call. Unless you go to Home Depot or Lowes and cut out the supplier and let them sell you your product for less than your suppliers. That is a joke that both companies do that. I am more pissed that GAF does though. I could start a whole new thread on why. Also the duration out sold Gaf timberline last year. FACT


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## John's Roofing

Use OC am I am really excited about their new OC TruDefinition shingles...with the reinforced nail strip...


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## Rex

*GAF Vs. Owens Corning*

Sounds like a lot of nonsense. Our experience has been that Owens Corning seems to seal the quickest (not that it's much of an issue except in colder weather). With a 6 nail per shingle requirement here in CT they don't seem to blow off before they seal anyway. With the new fiber glass strip Owens Corning has put in the Duration last year they seem to be a leg up on the other brands for wind resistance. We have installed many different brands (GAF, Owens Corning, Certainteed, IKO, and Tamko) over the years. IMHO, and for what its worth, Owens Corning seems to be the best we have installed according to our installers who work with the different roof shingles. That's an installer issue, not a performance issue. From a performance issue, Owens Corning seems to be the most wind resistant judging from the calls for blow offs we get when it gets really nasty (we don't get any on Owens Corning Duration Shingles).


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## vtroofing

Mistext


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## rsh209

Hi Rex, I am looking for a roofing company to replace our roof, but it seems that the contractors in my area are only offering GAF Timberline. Would you mind to send your company's name in CT, and so I could contact your company. Thanks.


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## GTOBill

Excellent choice staying away from Timberline Trash! Anyone who has installed them, PRAY you don't have to file a claim. Their customer service is FAR worse than their shingles! They will not return my calls regarding a claim filed, and a roofer told said to me- good luck, they never will come out.


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## vtroofing

GTOBill said:


> Excellent choice staying away from Timberline Trash! Anyone who has installed them, PRAY you don't have to file a claim. Their customer service is FAR worse than their shingles! They will not return my calls regarding a claim filed, and a roofer told said to me- good luck, they never will come out.


Maybe use a signature and they will have the opportunity to make contact.


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## GTOBill

vtroofing said:


> Maybe use a signature and they will have the opportunity to make contact.


I'm sorry, but I do not know what you mean by "use a signature". Put my full name here in print? They DO know who "GTOBill" is by now, due to multiple emails. Phone calls and emails aren't enough? Send certified letters? I do have a week's worth of emails from Mr Br***(the color), the "area rep", that were sent back and fourth before my claim, inwhich Steve B**** states the shingles are likely good BEFOR even looking at a picture. After sending a picture, and an email explaining the problems, Mr. B calls me and says- "I'm driving down the road, so I cannot read your email, however, I looked at your(cell phone) picture, and your (39 bundles of a mixed delivery) shingles are fine". He then called the store, at which time the store REFUSED to exchange the shingles. I was trapped. I had no choice but to start installing. I quit in the middle(3/4's up), and called in my claim, they're so bad. The job is still incomplete to this day. By the way, I did call the store the day they were delivered, and told them- big problem here, which started the original emails to/from GAF, and got me nowhere with the store, or GAF. We're going on 3 weeks since purchase now.
Actually, I DO have an update for this problem. True, the shingles do look to be of a very poor quality, with a wide line of missing granules above the nail line, causing a dip, causing the shingles to curl up into the air, thus exposing the nails which are BELOW the seal line on their shingles. However, the inspector that came out said he believes the BIGGEST issue, is the fact that Cart**-(the ex-president- can I say their name?) Lumber sold me obsolete, 30 year shingles dated 12-20-10. Some of the packages are faded nearly completely white from sitting outside. You bet I've saved everything! So, this would explain why the store's main office is refusing to even talk to me, or look at them. Even after I begged them to let me mail them a couple to look at. They potentially know their store screwed up. It also explains why GAF is not returning my phone calls, or responding to my claim. They potentially know it's not their fault, that Car** sold me old shingles. It's also likely GAF has no interest in stating it's Car**'s fault, due to Car** is in the process of changing over from selling O.C., to selling GAF. 
I would love to hear any suggestons on this dilema. It appears to me I have two options. Pay 7-8k for a complete tear-off, or finish a bad looking job, with exposed nails. I'm a rehabber. I did this shingle-over to make it look great for resale. oh well... By the way, the house is 17 years old, and the old shingles are still VERY nice, and VERY flat. Just blah. I do of course have photos of that too. Seriously, what's really likely to get done. I think if I'm VERY lucky, the store would eventually say- "here's some new shingles".
Thanks...(to them, and thanks for any thoughts from any of you).


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## BamBamm5144

Why did you decide to ruin the first layer that was "perfectly fine" by installing a second layer over it?


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## GTOBill

Several reasons. The two determining factors being the original shingles had been started too high up, thus exposing an unacceptable amount of drip edge. Solar panels had been installed on one section for years, thus making it look messy, with patched screw holes. The large antenna that was mouted up there had left rust stains(and patched screw holes)....but most importantly was the overall look. I fix up houses to make them look "great" for resale, not just "fine". The color of the old blah 3-tab shingles just didn't cut it, with the new color of siding I installed. And lastly, I'm sure you all know, that when it comes to resale, to say- "It's got a new 30 year roof", means ALOT. The buyers were supposed to buy with confidence, knowing they would not have any problems-large roofing bills- 5 years down the road. There is of course a HUGE difference in the appearence of the house now, going to the dimensional. Standing at the street, it looks incredible, compared to the old roof.


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## vtroofing

I am in fact interested in seeing these photos. BTW I am not calling you in the wrong, just more accurate facts. 

GAF is used on every home (including my own) and your description is a far cry from what have ever seen. 

There is no advantage of quality installs (aesthetics) over any other roofing material. 

Sight unseen installing metric shingles over non metric shingles without shortening your reveal to the underlying shingle courses will always telegraph through.


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## BamBamm5144

I have seen what GTO is talking about with the GAF shingles.

Friday I met with a guy who wanted me to use GAF shingles so I brought out a few actual shingles of GAF and then the CT that I was quoting. I didn't even have to say a thing. Homeowner signed with the GAF shingles and told me he can't believe that other guys sell this stuff.

Everytime I see the trucks leaving the supplier with the shingles loaded on, I smile because I know in 10 years, they'll be making me rich.


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## GTOBill

Shall I send a pic to the email at your RB website? 
Another inspector did come out this morning(yes, sunday morning. no, they're not free). Yet another version/opinion. This one disagrees with the last inspector. He doesn't believe the shingles are damaged(badly) from sitting out as the other one believed. He also believes that the shingles are infact the same shingles as those produced today(the other said they were obsolete). They had recently increased their warranty from 30 years, and now call them HD, he said. Or perhaps it's because they ARE made better today?? He is a roofer, and says he has never seen ANY with a void like this(he does gaf and Certanteed). He said the the biggest problem I will have is the shingles deteriorating prematurely(via u.v.'s) due to the large voids- nothing but paper there. I don't believe I had mentioned that these shingles are sooo weak there, that the nice breeze that day, started flipping over my shingle's tops, befor I could even place the next shingle on top. THAT was the last straw. I stopped the job. They were destroying themselves faster than I could install them!
He did point out to me too, how I had put the metric over the 3-tabs, following the mfg's directions. You called that one. My mistake there, following the package's instructions, so's not to void the warranty. Oh yes, how you CAN make out those lines every so many courses! Yes, that is definately explaining alot of the curlage. about 4-5 curled rows, two good. Four curled, two good... Of course I didn't know any better.
I think I just figured out how to put a pic here, I'll try with a pic of the flipped shingle. I took a pic of it immediately. You can see some of the void, but I'll get a better pic of the void to upload tomorrow. This is the only one(pic) I have in my computer right now.


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## vtroofing

GTOBill said:


> Shall I send a pic to the email at your RB website? *I see your complaint in the above photo. I have not seen that missing granular line and if I had I would not accept them either. Also the plastic near the top of the shingles is odd as well.*
> 
> Another inspector did come out this morning(yes, sunday morning. no, they're not free). Yet another version/opinion. This one disagrees with the last inspector. He doesn't believe the shingles are damaged(badly) from sitting out as the other one believed. He also believes that the shingles are infact the same shingles as those produced today(the other said they were obsolete). They had recently increased their warranty from 30 years, and now call them HD, he said. Or perhaps it's because they ARE made better today?? *I agree just new Wrappers highlighting the HD and Lifetime info.*
> 
> He is a roofer, and says he has never seen ANY with a void like this(he does gaf and Certanteed). He said the the biggest problem I will have is the shingles deteriorating prematurely(via u.v.'s) due to the large voids- nothing but paper there. I don't believe I had mentioned that these shingles are sooo weak there, that the nice breeze that day, started flipping over my shingle's tops, befor I could even place the next shingle on top. THAT was the last straw. I stopped the job. They were destroying themselves faster than I could install them! *Hot shingles are soft- from any brand and if the wind can and looks like it is as your shingles are not laying flat*
> 
> He did point out to me too, how I had put the metric over the 3-tabs, following the mfg's directions. You called that one. My mistake there, following the package's instructions, so's not to void the warranty. Oh yes, how you CAN make out those lines every so many courses! Yes, that is definately explaining alot of the curlage. about 4-5 curled rows, two good. Four curled, two good... Of course I didn't know any better.
> I think I just figured out how to put a pic here, I'll try with a pic of the flipped shingle. I took a pic of it immediately. You can see some of the void, but I'll get a better pic of the void to upload tomorrow. This is the only one(pic) I have in my computer right now.


*It is 2012 now, I can only assume they are in fact old (15 months), faded out wrappers would be a point to non-returnabity from the distributor's point of view can I ask if you paid full retail price of a close out price? Regardless I feel for your frustrations and if you were local to VT I'd assist you any way I could, feel free to call.*


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## GTOBill

If you feel these voids are reasonable, then by all means, tell me I worry too much. I've never seen anything like this, so I honestly do not know who's in the wrong. Anyone who looks at these photos, has seen more than gaf is even willing to look at. The photo with my finger shows the lip/dip caused at the edge of the double part, and the void. You really can't see that dip looking at a photo of them lying down. The one with the nail in it, shows how the last row is cracked from flopping in the wind for the last week. After tonight's storm, they're likely to be on the neighbors roof. They're trash anyway. I kept the nails on the high side to protect them from the elements, by keeping them as far away from being exposed as I could.


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## GTOBill

Thanks for your offer, and sympathy, but I'm not sure there's anyway you can help. I certainly wish you could! Would an inspection via looking at internet photos count for anything? I believe gaf would simply state- "do they leak??" well, no. not yet. "Then call us when they do!", at which time, they'll rip every little detail- "your vetilation is only 99% of the required amount! you loose". 
No, no discount for old shingles. The inspector asked that too. I DID get 2.00 off a bundle because I told them home depot gives a quantity discount. I thought it was $2.00(but it's more like $3.00) so they matched the 2.00 discount for 80 bundles. I believe the only option I truely have, would be to go after the store for refusing to exchange them. But seriously, what's that going to get me? I'm probably just burrying myself by proving their bad, at which point, I must disclose that I know there's a problem, when it's ready to sell. the best thing I can probably do, is spread the word to everyone how bad these gaf shingles are, how poorly I was treated by carter lumber, and try to prevent others from going through this.


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## BamBamm5144

Exchanging wouldn't help. Every single bundle is like that around here. GAF says it is to allow the shingles to lay more flat (yeah right). With the warranties GAF offers on their terrible products, they will be in a world of hurt in the near future.


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## MGP Roofing

I have used gaf a few times, thought they were too thin, but never seen anything like this. Those shingles shouldn't have even made it out of the factory! I'll continue to use Certainteed as my main supplier. My limited experience of OC shingles is good, did a roof with the Duration Premiums last year that was a pleasure to install, and looked great at the end of the job.


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## FramingPro

i did a roof with GAF shingles, nothing but good things to say...
the OC duration surenail ones...
a lot of material inconsistency! i would not recommend them.


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## Dallas-Roofing

It really depends on the temperature. I typically see the shingles taking form and adhering to one another with a week. We typically do not re-roof in the colder months. I will contract home owners with the knowledge that material prices may increase and save the work for a warmer time. 

Devin Mahdi
DFW Roofers


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## RooferJim

Owens Corning is by far the worst shingle on the market, and they also do not stand by there warranty.


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## Rex

*Owens Corning*

I have used Owens Corning Duration for several years. Never a call back or warranty issue. Shingles from any manufacturer can at times be defective and fail. We have seen Gaf Timberlines made 1985 through 2000 failing. More of them because they probably sold more. They seem thinner than Certainteed or Owens Corning, not that is a quality issue. Tear Strength is the real issue with quality. Typical failures are cracking from thermal shock (fiber glass mat inside the shingle loses tensile strength as it ages. Extreme temperature changes can make them crack we've been told). Inadequate ventilation can lead to overheating of the shingles, or softening of the roof deck that would also cause problems. Owens Corning with the fiber glass mat on the face of the nailing area is very resistant to blow offs. Finished a job 2 days before hurricane Sandy and nothing blew off. Duration has a 130 MPH wind rating with only 4 nails per shingle where other manufacturers require 6.


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## AmericanCustomContractors

Rex said:


> I have used Owens Corning Duration for several years. Never a call back or warranty issue. Shingles from any manufacturer can at times be defective and fail. We have seen Gaf Timberlines made 1985 through 2000 failing. More of them because they probably sold more. They seem thinner than Certainteed or Owens Corning, not that is a quality issue. Tear Strength is the real issue with quality. Typical failures are cracking from thermal shock (fiber glass mat inside the shingle loses tensile strength as it ages. Extreme temperature changes can make them crack we've been told). Inadequate ventilation can lead to overheating of the shingles, or softening of the roof deck that would also cause problems. Owens Corning with the fiber glass mat on the face of the nailing area is very resistant to blow offs. Finished a job 2 days before hurricane Sandy and nothing blew off. Duration has a 130 MPH wind rating with only 4 nails per shingle where other manufacturers require 6.


well said


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## Maxon100

They're both gonna seal in about the same time at the same tempatures but we use Owens Corning and one thing I do like about there shingle is the nylon nail strip.

http://stormproofroofing.org/


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## roofermann

Maxon100 said:


> They're both gonna seal in about the same time at the same tempatures but we use Owens Corning and one thing I do like about there shingle is the nylon nail strip.
> 
> http://stormproofroofing.org/


You might want to check the dates on these threads you're commenting on.:blink:


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