# What Is Your Most Profitable Thing To Do



## Ed the Roofer

For me, I just absolutely love it when a home needs to have al of the plywood decking replaced.

I also notice how many companies do not replace rotted decking, because they would rather get the job done quickly rather than the Right Way.

What makes your company the most profit?

Ed


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## apehangeralfy

The jobs that are all but impossible, scheduled so tight that there is no room for any error and the entire site has to work together. There is not even enough time to think about what you are doing, it has to instinctive... stressful but man time flies and the feeling of pulling it off is priceless...


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## Grumpy

The answer is highly dependable. We have the most margin on repairs. Until this year we would make the same "per truck" on a repair crew vs a shingle crew. I changed that to increase our markup on the shingle work to be more in line with our other work. We do real well on gutter work. As you know we are making the push into low slope and that's because that's where we do the best!

There is no profit in anything with the word "new" in it. That being new construction, new additions etc...


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## tinner666

Repair work. I'd love to have 2 a day, every day.


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## Grumpy

tinner666 said:


> Repair work. I'd love to have 2 a day, every day.


Why not Tinner? I keep one man busy doing nothing but repairs 40-50 hours per week every week. I'd love to have 2 or 3 repair guys working 40 hour weeks.


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## Aiken Colon

tinner666 said:


> Repair work. I'd love to have 2 a day, every day.


Try contacting local home inspectors in your area. Ask if they do thermal imaging. These guys find a lot of things wrong on roofs. Set up some type of referral program with them, or maybe pay for their leads in some way. Home inspectors are always looking for more ways to generate revenue. We talk to a ton of them weekly.

JJ


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## Ed the Roofer

Aiken Colon said:


> Try contacting local home inspectors in your area. Ask if they do thermal imaging. These guys find a lot of things wrong on roofs. Set up some type of referral program with them, or maybe pay for their leads in some ways. Home inspectors are always looking for more way to generate revenue. We talk to a ton of them weekly.
> 
> JJ


Good idea.

I converse with quite a few of them on one of their forums for some roofing advice, when needed, but never thought about putting them on my team for referrals.

Thanks,

Ed


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## Aiken Colon

Ed the Roofer said:


> Good idea.
> 
> I converse with quite a few of them on one of their forums for some roofing advice, when needed, but never thought about putting them on my team for referrals.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ed


You on the Nachi site? That is the main one that I know about. I have noticed a few guys from here and electrician talk on those boards as well. If you live near a major metropolitian area you can also see if they have any meetings coming up. I know FLIR was at their event here in Scottsdale. I am not sure what it takes to get an invite, but that would be one heck of a way to network with home inspectors. 

You can try realitors also, believe it or not, that do IR inspections. We sell a lot of home inspectors and occasionally a realitor IR units.

JJ


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## Ed the Roofer

Yes, mostly on Nachi.org with a few posts on the ASHI Inspectors Journal board.

Although the Nachi Certification seems to be frowned upon and considered just a revenue generating diploma mill by the other organizations who have a direspect for Nick Gromicko, I find their informative posts and readily access to supportive links to be extremely valuable.

I hold several posters in high regard over at Nachi, with Marcel Cyr and Brian McNeish being the two that most prominently come to mind.

Several of the inspectors also post on the JLC Forum, who I have know for several years as well.

Ed


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## whitcoroofing

I would have to say repeat customers are what make us the most profit. It cost a lot more to gain new customers, than to retain a customer. 

As far as one single type of job, it would most likely be roof restoration. Roof coatings can be applied rather quickly, compared to other jobs. A roof coating job most likely gives us the largest profit margin. As far as the most profit as a total dollar amount, that would be large re-roofing projects.


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## vtroofing

1. Deck over wide board sheathing- fast and profitable. 
2. Replacing first course plywood with new plywood- installing proper vents along with new plywood. Not so fast- as nailing plywood over the top of wide boards -but easier than complete re-deck. Ventilation and Insulation problem solver- but nearly always requires staging of some degree.
3. Insulation with new roof- pop a couple sheets off and you have clear access. 

Recently worked with a Contractor who worked with a Energy Auditor who thinks removing all the plywood over heated space (cathedral ceiling throughout), removing batts and spray foaming is the HO's best option. Instant hot roof- but those guys know all- ask em!


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## andy

The 15 minutes it takes to put up door hangers 1 block each direction of a job


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## vtroofing

Grumpy said:


> Why not Tinner? I keep one man busy doing nothing but repairs 40-50 hours per week every week. I'd love to have 2 or 3 repair guys working 40 hour weeks.


Properly done Repairs can be a very lucrative option. Even for a one man show the profits can be very high. 

Our refrigerator at home stopped chilling and its four years old so we called a repairman- $180.00 later it is fine. Probably a $5.00 part and my wife said he was here for ten minutes- required payment and we were glad to pay it. 

Furnace annual check-ups, cleaning a couple bills as well, plumber, ect. ect. and should be no bidding on repairs. 

I would like to begin using my head and experience instead of my blood, sweat, back and yes sometimes tears.


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## Aaron

*What's "profitable" mean to you?*

I agree that in one sense, repairs are very "profitable" on a percentage basis. 

But are you looking to make $100, or $1000, or more for the time and trouble of setting up the job and sending a truck?

In my opinion, in terms of the amount of actual profit dollars, you can't do better than running a full crew on an install.

And difficult work is the most profitable. I go in high and stay there. More than once I've been the only guy willing to bid the job, and I got paid well to do fantastic work.


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## tinner666

Aaron said:


> I agree that in one sense, repairs are very "profitable" on a percentage basis.
> 
> But are you looking to make $100, or $1000, or more for the time and trouble of setting up the job and sending a truck?
> 
> In my opinion, in terms of the amount of actual profit dollars, you can't do better than running a full crew on an install.
> 
> And difficult work is the most profitable. I go in high and stay there. More than once I've been the only guy willing to bid the job, and I got paid well to do fantastic work.


Difficult ones are where I like to be, but I'd love a bunch of easy ones for awhile until I start catching up. I'm so booked up, it isn't funny.


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## johnny roofer

Wow! For me new construction is hands down the most profitable! Most jobs in my area are 25-30sq 6/12 creamers. One 4 man crew can get them done in about 4-5hrs. I easily walk away with $1000 or more. I work for 36 home builders and they are my bread and butter.


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## Bryan Schite

Repair work, hands down. I have the highest margins on my repair work. Some days I'll knock out 3 different repairs in one day, and end up having a damn good week just from that  If ALL I had to do was repairs I'd be ecstatic


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## andy

Depositing the check!


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## vtroofing

johnny roofer said:


> Wow! For me new construction is hands down the most profitable! Most jobs in my area are 25-30sq 6/12 creamers. One 4 man crew can get them done in about 4-5hrs. I easily walk away with $1000 or more. I work for 36 home builders and they are my bread and butter.


Where are you and how much a square? How do you pay your guys cash, on the books or as subs?


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## Billy Luttrell

Torch Down repairs and Chimney Caps have the highest profit margin and quickest turn arounds for me.


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## Grumpy

vtroofing said:


> I would like to begin using my head and experience instead of my blood, sweat, back and yes sometimes tears.


 Blood, sweat and tears is for the apprentices, as a journeyman you should begin figuring out easier ways of doing things and as we begin to think like managers we figure out the easiest way of doing this is to let someone else do it and just supervise. 

We are working very hard. We are doing something not everyone CAN do and something not everyone wants to do. There is nothing wrong with making money and no reason anyone in any business should give away their experience for free.

VT really hit the nail on the head with his analogy about the fridge repair man, but it reminds me of an old joke. A roofer is called out to fix a leak. The property owner says he has truied to fix it but cant find the leak. The roofer climbs on the roof and pokes around for a few minutes, climbs back down and get his tool belt. Climbs back up pounds down a nail and caulks it, then climbs back down and gives the property owner the bill. 

The property owner is shocked that the roofer wants $250 for the repair that only took 10 minutes and insists upon an itemized bill. The rofoer rewrites the bill and it now reads "pounding down the nail and caulking $10, knowing where the pound and caulk $240." 


It's not really a joke, but I have told that to several customers over my career. I have been roofing now for 13 years, no not as long as some, but long enough to really get a pretty good understanding for what I am doing. I take pride in what I and my crew do and we usually do a very good job. The customer is not just paying for the time we spent doing it, they are also paying for the time we spent learning how to properly do what we did.

Another analogy, when you pay a doctor or lawyer $1-500 per hour for their services, you are not paying for their time doing it. You are paying for their time in school learning how to do it. 


I think every roofing business owner should make friends with a successful plumber, electrician or other service contractor. They've really got the service side of the busines down to a science and we should learn from them.


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## vtroofing

Apprentices? Union terms. Ground guys, laborers, roofers, detail man, foreman.

If you need a Plumber you call a Plumber- 
If you need a Electrician you call a Electrician- 

But if you need a roofer- well you can call a Contractor, Handyman, Carpenter, ect. and with the economy in the toilet- everyone that was building is "adapting their trade" to include roofing. 

Marketing as a Roof Repair Specialist, providing just repairs well that is speedy service demanding payment
upon completion as most repair guys you spoke of do- and often times more than one repair can be completed in a day.


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## Grumpy

WTF you want to argue about unions and non unions. You're missing the whole damned point.


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## vtroofing

I don't think I missed the point. Yes, they get their money and we could learn from them, but I carry a laptop and printer I can just as easy produce a Invoice repair complete. Trip charge, 

Here in Vermont- anybody who knows how to roof- is roofing. No they are not "Roofers" but they got the basics down and realize that when roofs leak or need replacing the money is found somehow, before siding or windows or kitchens, decks, ect. ect.

That is where I see the difference between us "Roofers" and those other Service Guys- Plumbers, Electricians- maybe not in your town but in this one.


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## Grumpy

No, I'm not sure you do see the difference. What I am saying they specialize in their particular trade, plumbing, electric, hvac what ever... but they also have the process and methodology of the service call down to a science. This includes from the initial phone call when the phone girl is answering the phone to the point of invoice. Everyone understands the system and works it from A to Z. 

It doesn't often work like that in roofing. And admittedly I'm sure it also doesn't always work like that in the plumbing, electric etc... but there are far more service based M.E.P. contractors than service based roofing contractors. It seems like only the large commercial roofing companies have well organized service divisions. 

I'm not suggesting we shoudl be come do it all repair men. What I am suggesting is that we copy their systems and methods for organizing our standard operating procedures in our own service calls.


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## NLshinglerBC

Grumpy said:


> Climbs back up pounds down a nail and caulks it, then climbs back down and gives the property owner the bill.


did he fix the leak? 
lol
and most profitable? cedar conversions


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## Aaron

Thisboss said:


> My most Profitable thing to do is NOT to charge customers to replace roof decking. I land more customers that way because most roofing companies charge $30-$50 a sheet. I also attract more sales reps to work for me because they also can land more customers with my company.


While that might be your best _tactic_, I doubt that is your most profitable thing to do. If you would remove and re-deck a completely rotten plywood deck for nothing, you will quickly cease to be a problem for your competitors. The way to out-compete companies with tactics like yours is to point out to the client just what your motivation clearly will be: not to replace roof decking that needs it. Sure, they like your price, but when you don't replace the 9 squares of sagging decking over an attic with completely blocked ventilation and two bath exhaust fans that dump into the attic (because you don't have it built into your job, and you still need to buy groceries) ... well, how long is that roof going to last? Lowballers cut corners, period, because they can't afford not to.

We include one sheet of plywood or 30 lf of deck board in every bid, but that's as much so that we can take care of a minor repair without having to nickel and dime the client after the job is done. After that its by the sheet or the foot.


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## 1985gt

Thisboss said:


> My most Profitable thing to do is NOT to charge customers to replace roof decking. I land more customers that way because most roofing companies charge $30-$50 a sheet. I also attract more sales reps to work for me because they also can land more customers with my company.


I highly doubt that. 30-50 a sheet is too cheep also. To tie in to the original topic. Repairs by far the most profitable for us. Also this leads to far more repeat customers then replacing a sheet of plywood. If you find a leak that others can't they will almost sign a contract for a new roof right then and there.


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## iRoof22

*Profits.*

One of the most profitable things for me was investing in a solid roofing estimation software program. There are many of them out there; including EstimationPro, Acculinx, Roofing Estimator Pro and many more. You have to find one that best fits your company. If you want any more information on different ones and what they offer feel free to ask. I have researched many different ones. The organization it provides and time saved is very nice.


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## johnny roofer

Do those roofing estimators save time? In my head I feel as though it would take twice as long than doing it the old fashioned way. But from a presentation point of view I could see the benefit. But come spring, summer, and fall I have to do anywhere from 2 to 10 quotes on any given day, as well as all the other managerial stuff that goes along with being self employed. Maybe I will check out some of the their websites but again time is one thing I do not have a lot of.
Thanks for getting me thinking about it again!


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## BamBamm5144

johnny roofer said:


> Do those roofing estimators save time? In my head I feel as though it would take twice as long than doing it the old fashioned way. But from a presentation point of view I could see the benefit. But come spring, summer, and fall I have to do anywhere from 2 to 10 quotes on any given day, as well as all the other managerial stuff that goes along with being self employed. Maybe I will check out some of the their websites but again time is one thing I do not have a lot of.
> Thanks for getting me thinking about it again!



It depends on what you are really looking for them to do. Yes, they do give you basic roof measurements but details such as amount of PVC pipes, bathroom vents, correct roof pitch are all left out. They try to estimate the pitch, but are often wrong.

If you are doing anywhere from 2-10 quotes a day, that would be around 40 leads to 200 leads a month. In that case, I would be shocked if you don't have a salesman or two to help with all those leads. You must have more than one crew or at least one massive sized crew.

There is ALWAYS time to make your business better and more efficient.


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## iRoof22

Johnny Roofer

Software programs are going to allow you to save immense time. The one thing that I have realized is that I can do twice to three times the estimates daily. There are different demos out there for free trial. You should definitely try some out. If you would be interested in chatting about a couple different ones over email feel free to let me know, I am still in the process of finding which one I think will fit me best. The benefits your company will see are going to be great. I am pretty new to roofing, but it is the wave the industry is going towards in my opinion. Nice to chat with you.


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## tinner666

iRoof22 said:


> Johnny Roofer
> 
> Software programs are going to allow you to save immense time. The one thing that I have realized is that I can do twice to three times the estimates daily. There are different demos out there for free trial. You should definitely try some out. If you would be interested in chatting about a couple different ones over email feel free to let me know, I am still in the process of finding which one I think will fit me best. The benefits your company will see are going to be great. I am pretty new to roofing, but it is the wave the industry is going towards in my opinion. Nice to chat with you.


 Interesting. Your software must be made by Bell. To do 20 proposals in one day, that breaks down to exactly 24 minutes each. Travel time, and face time included in the 24 minutes, of course. Not bad. Is it Bell? Do I win?


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## vtroofing

Do you mean Apple? iRoof written off your ipad, iPhone...


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## tinner666

vtroofing said:


> Do you mean Apple? iRoof written off your ipad, iPhone...


Doubt it. I'm sure its a Bell product. Probably the 'Ranger'.


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## johnny roofer

Yes, I have a supervisor/estimator guy that goes and does all the measuring for the quotes, and back at the office I do all the pricing and quote preparation. We run 2 or 3 crews depending on the size of the jobs. We are generally booked 8 to 10 weeks at any given time.


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## BrandRoof

johnny roofer said:


> Do those roofing estimators save time? In my head I feel as though it would take twice as long than doing it the old fashioned way. But from a presentation point of view I could see the benefit. But come spring, summer, and fall I have to do anywhere from 2 to 10 quotes on any given day, as well as all the other managerial stuff that goes along with being self employed. Maybe I will check out some of the their websites but again time is one thing I do not have a lot of.
> Thanks for getting me thinking about it again!


Johnny, those lead figures are impressive.


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## Roofing Reps

johnny roofer said:


> Yes, I have a supervisor/estimator guy that goes and does all the measuring for the quotes, and back at the office I do all the pricing and quote preparation. We run 2 or 3 crews depending on the size of the jobs. We are generally booked 8 to 10 weeks at any given time.


Johnny roofer,
Your system no doubt is working for you, how do you get the quote back out to the customer? What software do you use? 
Do you have a job sup that watches the crews?
Sorry for all the questions, just curious, 
Thanks


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## BamBamm5144

johnny roofer said:


> Yes, I have a supervisor/estimator guy that goes and does all the measuring for the quotes, and back at the office I do all the pricing and quote preparation. We run 2 or 3 crews depending on the size of the jobs. We are generally booked 8 to 10 weeks at any given time.


I am surprised that you wouldn't already have a salesmen. I have one crew for roofing and one for siding. I already have a salesmen to help run 15-20 leads a week.


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## johnny roofer

We knock on the door and hand deliver a typed out quote (I use Excel) with all manufacturers literature. Explain the quote and answer any questions. We have a 'job sheet' for each job with all the information pertaining to that job that is given to an assigned supervisor with a list of all crew members for that job. If there is any issues with that job in the future I can pull the invoice with the job sheet and hold that supervisor accountable for any problems. I have had all my guys for years and they take pride in what they do. My 'issues' with jobs are almost nil.


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## pwhitty

Grumpy said:


> The answer is highly dependable. We have the most margin on repairs. Until this year we would make the same "per truck" on a repair crew vs a shingle crew. I changed that to increase our markup on the shingle work to be more in line with our other work. We do real well on gutter work. As you know we are making the push into low slope and that's because that's where we do the best!
> 
> There is no profit in anything with the word "new" in it. That being new construction, new additions etc...


What is your typical mark up for repairs residential and commercial?


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