# Hand held welder, adhesives



## Tatnic (May 11, 2009)

Hey guys,

I'm looking to do some work with PVC to build a special application product. I'm wondering which brand hand-held hot air welder is a good value? 

And what kind of adhesive would work well with PVC on cast iron or steel?

Thanks


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Leister definetly is the most popular. 

To the best of my knowledge application of membrane directly to a metal substrate is not a warranted application. Having said that we obviously adhere membrane to metal flashings all the time. For these applciations, we use bonding adhesive. http://www.versico.com/documents/reslib/08-VFC1B-OPT2.pdf

I think you may have misrepresented yourself. If I recall in the beginning you said you were an engineer coming up with a spec for a customer. Now you say you are an inventor... Hmmm. Not cool, man. Or am I mistaken?


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

Don't even bother with the other brands of Hot Air Welders.

Leister is the best and most durable.

I have tried at least 4 other popular brands of hand welders and they all fall way short, unless you are only going to do one job with them.

Ed


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

I've used a sievert hand held also and it was much much lighter but I think the liesiter was better.


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## SinglePlyGuy (Jan 7, 2009)

We've used em all but always end up back with Leister.

As far as adhesive goes, use whatever PVC bonding adhesive is sold by the manufacturer you are using :whistling:


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## Tatnic (May 11, 2009)

Grumpy said:


> Leister definetly is the most popular.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge application of membrane directly to a metal substrate is not a warranted application. Having said that we obviously adhere membrane to metal flashings all the time. For these applciations, we use bonding adhesive. http://www.versico.com/documents/reslib/08-VFC1B-OPT2.pdf
> 
> I think you may have misrepresented yourself. If I recall in the beginning you said you were an engineer coming up with a spec for a customer. Now you say you are an inventor... Hmmm. Not cool, man. Or am I mistaken?


Yes true on both counts. But I would hardly call this an invention. I need something to perform a certain task and I think a roofer would be the perfect one to build the prototype since the materials that roofers commonly use seem well fitted to the task. Let me ask you...how is the PVC welded to flashing, ie. the "clad" metal flashing? Is it adhered or welded somehow? I'm guessing adhered but that's just a guess.

thanks


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

Many/Most of the manufacturers offer a sheet metal that has a PVC skin cladding adhered to it, which is either offered already pre-bent for various flashing styles or sold as sheet goods to custom fabricate.

If the manufacturer offers it, it would be a warranted procedure.

Alternatively, their are dual cleat and snap on cover flashings for roof edge terminations such as gravel stops and coping caps.

If none of those, the the flashings get secured with termination bars approved by that particular manufacturer.

Ed


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Tatnic said:


> Yes true on both counts. But I would hardly call this an invention. I need something to perform a certain task and I think a roofer would be the perfect one to build the prototype since the materials that roofers commonly use seem well fitted to the task. Let me ask you...how is the PVC welded to flashing, ie. the "clad" metal flashing? Is it adhered or welded somehow? I'm guessing adhered but that's just a guess.
> 
> thanks


 If it's clad metal it's welded. If it's bare or painted metal it'd adhered with manufacturer's suggested bonding adhesive.


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## Tatnic (May 11, 2009)

Grumpy said:


> If it's clad metal it's welded. If it's bare or painted metal it'd adhered with manufacturer's suggested bonding adhesive.


So if I wanted to build this prototype from scratch, I'd need some adhesive to bond the pvc membrane to the metal, and then a hand torch to weld pvc to pvc. The adhesive is what?


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Each pvc membrane manufacturer makes their own bonding adhesive. It's a 2 sided contact cement type product, where you apply it to the bottom of the membrane and top of the substrate, allow it to cure for a few minutes until tacky then join the two surfaces together. That's a bond that will probably never break.


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## Tatnic (May 11, 2009)

Grumpy said:


> Each pvc membrane manufacturer makes their own bonding adhesive. It's a 2 sided contact cement type product, where you apply it to the bottom of the membrane and top of the substrate, allow it to cure for a few minutes until tacky then join the two surfaces together. That's a bond that will probably never break.


Is this adhesive something that you can buy from a supplier? Or is something only the mgfr carries? With all the stuff Sika makes, I have to wonder if they have something that would be close.


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## RooferJim (Oct 20, 2008)

you need to learn about roofing before you reinvent the wheel bro.
Sika bought out Sarnafil, one of the better PVC's.


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## dlbroofer (Feb 15, 2011)

*cheap hot air welder*

does anybody know about these cheap welders. They are $90 on ebay and it says they get to the same temp and air flow as the $500 ones, does anybody have experience with these?


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## caliroofer (Feb 15, 2011)

Is PVC the top material for commercial roofs right now? I see a lot more guys switching over to it. but is it for the cost or the liability versus a torchdown or hot?


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## flatroofing (Nov 22, 2010)

Right on the money Grumpy


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## 1985gt (Dec 21, 2010)

You get what you pay for with welders.

PVC has been around for along time. Now its all about the cool roof. Not a whole lot of savings vers a pvc and 3ply mop and gravel, depending on app. Yes insurance companys generally turn their nose up on torch downs, and some time mops downs too. Too bad, hard to beat a BUR.


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## EQUIPMENT PRO (Aug 5, 2011)

I have experienced every single welder on the market for I am a hot air welder technician. Definately need to stay away from anything made in china. Trust me it is between the Leister Triac and BAK Rion. Both are made in Switzerland. I would definately go with the Rion that I sell because it is close to $100 dollars cheaper that the Triac. You get the same performance as the Leister and you get a 2-year warranty whereas Leister only comes with 1.


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## Joe Roofer (Nov 21, 2009)

I have a normal leister and a Sievert TH 1650. I'm not sure the Sievet will outlast the Liester but I like to use it more.


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## GeorgeKarash (Jan 15, 2016)

I'd say, JB Weld PlasticWeld but, please don't use glue on acrylic.


George,
http://www.asggutter.com


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