# Fun and Games



## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

Just thought I'd post a pic I recenlty took while working a 2-story slate roof. It turned out I have the wrong lenght hook ladder on the truck to get to one section. I hope improvision didn't violate any safety rules.:laughing:


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

Should be extended 3' above the working platform. If your going up higher then 10' then its considered a Serious Higher/Greater violation with a potential ticket at $7,000. That is if you work in the USA and get inspected by OSHA.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

Safety_Guy said:


> Should be extended 3' above the working platform. If your going up higher then 10' then its considered a Serious Higher/Greater violation with a potential ticket at $7,000. That is if you work in the USA and get inspected by OSHA.


 LMFAO!!!:laughing:


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

I thought the rule was 3' of the gutter, plus or minus. The gutter was only 18' up.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

I bet OSHA would have a field day when I wrap SE's off the ladder. Some guy from the power company had a hissy fit.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

The 3 foot is impractical for most applications. Here's one from last week.


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

3 foot is from the edge where the plywood ends and the gutter begins or as us safety guys say (working platform). Using aluminum ladders next to power lines is a HUGE NO-NO, thats why they make Fiber Glass Ladders. And for the impossible areas like you've shown in u'r last picture, you could use a ladder jack scaffold (only if the deck height is 20' or less from the ground), or pump jack scaffold or a tubalar welded scaffold, or find a differant way to get on that roof. I know, is a tight place and a really steep roof, your options are verry limited.....

Interloc...... STFU !!!


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

This is much safer for me. I tried the 3' thing a time or two. Lot of ladder twist and not good at all on steep roofs. That's 18' of hook there.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

BTW, I use the fiberglass ladders when wrapping the lines, and sometimes when unwrapping. The aluminum are more stabe, to be, and definitely don't slide as much, so the aluminum ones go up when I'm set.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

safety clown GFYS you hypocrit..lets hear the proper way he should do it..not "figure a different way"


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

I always tell roofers to install a 2x6 toe board at the top of the ladder, Extend the ladder 3 feet above the roof edge, tie off the ladder to the bracket at the top. When you step on to the roof, place the heal of your boot abainst the 2x6 board for traction and to balance your self on the slope. 

I had a roofer once show up to a site, it rained at night. He put up the ladder and went up. He failed to follow the company's safety protocal and did not install the 2x6 toe board at the top of his ladder. This was a 6:12 pitch. The moment his muddy shoe stepped on the plywood, off he went to the side and luckly shattered both of his ankles. Needles to say, he was off work for 6 months. He did get WC insurance benefit, but that only pays out 66.6% of what he was making, he also lost $$, since he was unable to do side jobs on the weekends.


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

couple more cool systems


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

If you're using this set up....* (Chicken Ladders)* Remember that OSHA has these requirements for them...

*1926.452(m)(1)* - Crawling boards (chicken ladder) shall extend from the roof peak to the eaves when used in connection with roof construction, repair, or maintenance. 

*1926.452(m)(2)* Crawling boards (chicken ladder) shall be secured to the roof by ridge hooks or by means that meet equivalent criteria (e.g., strength and durability). 

*1926.451(g)(1)(iii)* - Each employee on a crawling board (chicken ladder) shall be protected by a personal fall arrest system, a guardrail system (with minimum 200 pound toprail capacity), or by a threefourth inch (1.9 cm) diameter grabline or equivalent handhold securely fastened beside each crawling board;


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

I think I'll pass on that stuff.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

Besides, walk boards, etc. should be level for proper staging.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

Often, I have to go over the top and there is NO ladder access at all. All my hooks have attachment points. They're used for safety, or even rappelling if necessary. Sometimes, the line is the only access I have.
In one pic, I'm suspended over the gutter with my foot in a foot loop attached to an ascender.

(BTW, what is a 6/12 roof?)


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

Often, I can't even get a HL to reach to the gutter. In this pic, the roof was barn shaped and a longer HL would have created a fulcrum where it extended past the break.
The Black I'd. Best roofing tool in the worl. Too bad it's restricted in use to official rescue agencies in the US. Totally idiot proof.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

as usual friggen safety clowns, so *un* realistic..get some real roofers hired


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

Looks like you're doing what you can to stay safe. A written plan would be a usefull adition for you if OSHA showed up for an inspection. Repelling gear is not intended to be used with roofing applications, so the last picture of you in a body belt and a repelling rope set up would certainly not pass with an OSHA inspector and would land you a fine. Full body harness and approved life lines are only allowed. I understand the difficulties and the obstacles that u have to overcome, but the law is the law. 
6:12 referrs to the pitch of a roof. About a 26 degree slope.


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## vtroofing (Sep 27, 2009)

3' Ladder- Over Rule is not always the safest. In the end it should falls back on common sense. 

For instance- carrying a bundle up a ladder it is easier for me to NOT have to step off the side of the ladder but throwing it right over onto the planks. 

As for being tied off when over 6' off the ground, please show me how you adjust your rope while climbing 30' up a ladder with a bundle when most of us only have two hands, if we had three hands maybe. 

On the other hand, if I'm sliding off a roof (after unhooking rope from permanent roof buckle) I'd much rather grab onto a ladder stretching 3' over the roof edge opposed to even with the gutter... no matter what monkey is holding the ladder for me... texting on his phone or not! 

It always should fall back on common sense, after all what idiot choosing this trade doesn't have common sense?


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## vtroofing (Sep 27, 2009)

Safety_Guy said:


> Looks like you're doing what you can to stay safe. A written plan would be a usefull adition for you if OSHA showed up for an inspection. Repelling gear is not intended to be used with roofing applications, so the last picture of you in a body belt and a repelling rope set up would certainly not pass with an OSHA inspector and would land you a fine. Full body harness and approved life lines are only allowed. I understand the difficulties and the obstacles that u have to overcome, but the law is the law.
> 6:12 referrs to the pitch of a roof. About a 26 degree slope.



If you cock your head slightly to the left or right (depending on which slope you are gauging) the pitch is always under 26 degrees.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

vtroofing said:


> It always should fall back on common sense, after all what idiot choosing this trade doesn't have common sense?


 none of us according to safety clown.


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

vtroofing said:


> For instance- carrying a bundle up a ladder it is easier for me to NOT have to step off the side of the ladder but throwing it right over onto the planks.


That's why they invented ladder lifts for shingles. OSHA says that you have to maintain 3 points of contact at all time, while climbing up or down ladders, therefore technically you are in violation when carrying up that bundle of shingles *Click on the pdf attachement below.*



vtroofing said:


> As for being tied off when over 6' off the ground, please show me how you adjust your rope while climbing 30' up a ladder with a bundle when most of us only have two hands, if we had three hands maybe.


You don't need to be tied off when climbing up or down a ladder, leave the rope at the top of the ladder, once your on the upper rung, and ready to step on o the roof, thats when you tie off to the rope. Same goes when coming off the roof. You stay clipped in until you reach the ladder, you unhook and climb down.


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

vtroofing said:


> If you cock your head slightly to the left or right (depending on which slope you are gauging) the pitch is always under 26 degrees.


 
LOL :thumbup::laughing::yes:


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

oH. I almost never see a 26 degree slope other than the landscape. Surely not on the roof.

BTW, that pic of the guy on the roof with a hardhat. That is NOT an OSHA requirement. Go back to '71-'72 and you might find my name in their records. That stopped all the work on the site one day because I didn't have one on and I refused to wear one. After three hours, and ALL the OSHA Brass Richmond had, they decided that I was correct that if an airplane DID happen to crash where I was standing, the hardhat would NOT save me. They changed the rule that day to "Hard hats will be worn below the eave, or below anything that could cause harm." Or words to that effect.


I use work positioning harnesses. Not fall arrest harnesses. Big difference. The I'd can only handle 1/2" arborist lines and smaller.


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

I've seen guys get cited for working below a guy on a lower portion of the roof and not wearing the hard hat. Guy on top moving bundles around the roof and the guy below him laying down felt and no hard hat landed him a citation. Explanation was, what if the guy on top accidentally drops the bundle of shingles on the guy below him. So I always tell all the roofers that it is up to the OSHA inspector if he will cite stuff like that or not, but to be on the safe side, just put the hard hat on...


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

That must have been a 36/12-48/12 roof if the bundle could land on a guy's head from above. It can't even happen on a 16/12. Law of physics and all that gravity stuff.


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## vtroofing (Sep 27, 2009)

Or he hears "heads up" and catches it with his face. 

Seen it happen with a hammer. Ding. I would pay money for a Safety Guy to tell dude it was his fault and for that deserves a fine!


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

buddy i;d pay double


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

same with safety glasses. if your using a nail gun, you must wear them. 48,000 eye injuries a year on average in the US.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

Safety_Guy said:


> same with safety glasses. if your using a nail gun, you must wear them. 48,000 eye injuries a year on average in the US.


 :laughing::no::laughing: what a tool!! I betcha you follow ALL rules and regs..? :laughing: cuz you dont have common sense :laughing:.


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## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

Saftey glasses! Yeah! I'm not sure what happened, but I had a wraparound pair with the elastic strap on. As I took them off, the strap snapped and literally took out my right eye. I had to wear a patch for 2 weeks.


My current 6/12 job and tomorrows 6/12. Well, at least the widow's walk is walkable.:laughing: Because of limited access, I have to go down from the WW to do the valleys on the front.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

tinner666 said:


> Saftey glasses! Yeah! I'm not sure what happened, but I had a wraparound pair with the elastic strap on. As I took them off, the strap snapped and literally took out my right eye. I had to wear a patch for 2 weeks.


 BAWAAHAHA!! :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

Here you go, back in 2005 the statistics showed 30,500 eye injuries a year. Fast forward a couple years and its now about 48,000. Wher's your COMMON SENSE?


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

Safety_Guy said:


> *Wher's* your COMMON SENSE?


Its no *WHERE* , common sense tells me to just wear shades..but you don't have common sense so i understand..


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

Interloc said:


> Its no *WHERE* , common sense tells me to just wear shades..but you don't have common sense so i understand..


Just make sure they have a stamp on the side that says +Z87. Regular SHADES wont protect you and you might end up looking like this guy.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

and your telling me regular safety glasses would've stopped that nail?..:laughing:


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

Interloc said:


> and your telling me regular safety glasses would've stopped that nail?..:laughing:


YES, watch the video i posted earlier


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

lets see hands of all who point there loaded nail gun towards there face...anybody?


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## Safety_Guy (Dec 15, 2011)

Interloc said:


> lets see hands of all who point there loaded nail gun towards there face...anybody?


Is that what your COMMON SENSE is telling you to do?


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

Safety_Guy said:


> Is that what your COMMON SENSE is telling you to do?


nope..seen it in your no common sense little video min 5:15-16..:laughing:


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