# TPO job - please verify production rates



## Grumpy

I just put together a bid for a job. Here are the details: 

1 story building
165' x 175' outside measurments with a Kynar gravel stop at all 4 sides.
Current roof is a ballasted EPDM which is shrinking badly.
That is over some kind of insulation whcih I did not core but seems too to be too thin since it is over fluted metal deck.

My proposal:
Remove the gravel and dispose.
Cut back the edge of the roof to eliminate the shrinkage effect, but leave the EPDM in place. Maybe also cut back from the curbs and boxes as necessary.
Install new 45 mil TPO Mechanically attached over 1 1/2" ISO insulation. I suppose I could do EPS, but I am bidding ISO for now.
Flashing details include: 4 soil pipes 0-6" boot. 14 4x8 curbs. 12 flu pipes to be field wrapped. 10 4x4 curbs. 4 interior roof drains. 2 2x2 curbs. 


When all is said and done I figure I am goign to need to order 300 squares of membrane, plus accessories, 9000 6" screws, 5000 insulation plates, 4000 seam plates and 70 pieces of kynar steel gravel stop. The price seems low at what comes up to be: $113k. 

Material is going to cost me about $45k. If I use a per square price for the labor it comes up real high at 800 man hours or 20 working days  

That's where I am stuck. The sale price seems ok, maybe a wee bit low. The man hours seem ridiculously high! I'm just guessing since I haven't done a TPO this big.

Comments?


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## apehangeralfy

800 hrs sounds about right if not a bit low depending on how fast your crew is and the time to remove the gravel. I'm assuming that there is pitch built in and minimal crickets to be built with taper. All the TPO I have done was either fully adhered or the 2001 system to meet uplift. A lot depends on your details and can add or subtract a ton of time, what edge detail are you using?


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## Grumpy

Gravel stop at the edge. First wrap over the field membrane, mount the GS, then strip in the field membrane gluing it to the metal and welding it to the field, then caulk. TPO coated metal is so damned expensive.

The roof has enough slope that no puddles or ponding water was visible.


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## apehangeralfy

The ones we do it gets speced to wrap the field over the edge, drip get screwed every 3", clean and prime then pressure sensitive cover strip get rolled on. The cover strip is up there to. Never had good luck with the TPO clad metal and with that many liner ft it would take forever to weld it... make sure your robot is up to snuff, I had one that acted up and my guys didn't do a test pc every day, 500 sq with intermittent welds....


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## Ed the Roofer

A style like a Hickman 2-Piece snap lock gravel stop works out pretty nicely too, if they have an approved specification alloed for it.

Ed


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## SinglePlyGuy

First off I would order an extra 20 sq. of TPO....think you will be a tad short going with 300 sqs.

Secondly, don't use the glue/caulk detail for your perimeter...especially with TPO. Go with a Metal Era 2 piece edge....it will cost a little bit more but will go on quicker and save you a ton of headaches down the road.

Caulk is a maintenance item.

Peel & Stick is better than Glue/Caulk but if someone wants a heat-welded system they should get one.... no seam tape or pressure sensitive is my motto.

Then again all we do is heat welded systems so i am bias 

As far as labor goes I think 600 hours is probably more accurate. Your material cost looks right. In our area (Central NJ ) that job would probably go for around $85k

Just realized this post was from November but I just joined today :thumbup:


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## Ed the Roofer

Welcome to the site SinglePlyGuy.

Why don't you make an introduction post and tell a little more about what materials you work with and for how long.

Ed


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## Grumpy

Wow $85k I'd lose my shirt, pants and probably my company. But then again I am told we are 1/5th where we should be in terms of production. Someone told me that job would be a 2 day job for 4 men. I laughed, although it comes from a respectable source. 

FYI the customer won't even return any of my calls.


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## SinglePlyGuy

Well unfortunately thats where prices are at in NJ.

Believe me I am not really thrilled about it either. But the easy projects that you can just blow through usually dont net too well percentage-wise.

A small crew could knock that job out in 5 days max. Alot of contractors these days will take that job and bank $20k for a weeks work.


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## rwolfe

Grumpy, did you get this job?


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## Grumpy

Nope they won't even return my calls. I have a suspicion that the guy on the phone requesting the estimate may not have been upfront with me and was wasting my time. Infact I broke one of my cardinal rules and did the estimate without meeting the decision maker. Then again I was almost double what SinglePlyGUy said he'd be so I could also speculate my price was insulating <shrugs> 

Win some lose some, this job was probably too big for us anyways. Our largest TPO is 80 squares, and largest roof over all was 250 squares, so this was a jump for us.


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## Blucollarworker

Grumpy said:


> I just put together a bid for a job. Here are the details:
> 
> 1 story building
> 165' x 175' outside measurments with a Kynar gravel stop at all 4 sides.
> Current roof is a ballasted EPDM which is shrinking badly.
> That is over some kind of insulation whcih I did not core but seems too to be too thin since it is over fluted metal deck.
> 
> My proposal:
> Remove the gravel and dispose.
> Cut back the edge of the roof to eliminate the shrinkage effect, but leave the EPDM in place. Maybe also cut back from the curbs and boxes as necessary.
> Install new 45 mil TPO Mechanically attached over 1 1/2" ISO insulation. I suppose I could do EPS, but I am bidding ISO for now.
> Flashing details include: 4 soil pipes 0-6" boot. 14 4x8 curbs. 12 flu pipes to be field wrapped. 10 4x4 curbs. 4 interior roof drains. 2 2x2 curbs.
> 
> 
> When all is said and done I figure I am goign to need to order 300 squares of membrane, plus accessories, 9000 6" screws, 5000 insulation plates, 4000 seam plates and 70 pieces of kynar steel gravel stop. The price seems low at what comes up to be: $113k.
> 
> Material is going to cost me about $45k. If I use a per square price for the labor it comes up real high at 800 man hours or 20 working days
> 
> That's where I am stuck. The sale price seems ok, maybe a wee bit low. The man hours seem ridiculously high! I'm just guessing since I haven't done a TPO this big.
> 
> Comments?


Wish ya luck 🍀


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## roofermann

Blucollarworker said:


> Wish ya luck 🍀


Pretty sure the roof has been finished for about 6 years now


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