# unreasonable clients



## aussieroofer (Jun 10, 2009)

started a slate job recently. the guy tells me he wants a perfect job done. no problem, i said. you shouldnt be doing the job if you approach it any different way. someone had already done the battoning. he tells me he wants the batons straigthened up. no problem.then i find out its not the battons that are the problem the rafters are all over the place. (keep in mind there is bugger all work at the moment so i have to put up with more than i usually would.) i'm patching up dodgy carpentry work. low rafters, gable end ladders 1 inch lower than the common rafters. how the hell can i do a perfect job if the "canvas" beneath me is screwed up. i will make the roof look good but it will be at my expense. as it will take me time to correct the chippy work. i point this out to the client , he tells me to just make it look right. but is not forthcoming with any extra funds.
is it unreasonable to point this out and request more money for the roof corrections? after all... i priced to slate a battoned roof, not hide poor chippy work. makes me wonder why the last guy left. i was told he had a heart attack!! i'm not surprised.

jason


----------



## OUTLAW (Feb 16, 2009)

Write up a change order for fixing the carpentry. Have Mr. "wants a perfect job done" sign it. If he won't sign it, tell him you will apply the slates to what is there as per your agreement.


----------



## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

Yes, that is what change orders are for, or as I call the, "Update To Specifications", because it has a less disturbing ring to it.

Ed


----------



## aussieroofer (Jun 10, 2009)

he tells me that we discussed straigtening the battons. i agreed that we did but tried to point out that rafters are not battons. i have squared the battons and now he wants the dips fixed. thats a carpenters job not a slaters job. to add insult to injury he tells me his brother sya the roof is not right.!!!! this is what i have been saying!!! but the brother seems to think i can wave my magic slate and fix everything. who am i doing the job for? him or the brother? should be fun when he turns up on site.


----------



## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

Put it in writing to him.

The structural variance is due to the underlying rafters, which need additional correction, above and beyond what the original contract stipulated.

If you sign here; .....

Then for XX amount of dollars, we can modify the waviness.

If you do NOT sign here to accept the additional work that is required, then the waviness will remain and not be considered a defect of our related contracted workmanship.

What would you like to do Sir?

Leave an option for Yes or No and have him sign for either one of his choices.

Bill for hours taken up during this decision making time and for any additional meeting time that is incurred.

Otherwise, WALK AWAY.

Ed


----------



## aussieroofer (Jun 10, 2009)

thanks for the advice lads. walked away yesterday. every time i tried to talk to him about the roof being out of whack he just kept saying he wanted a "perfect job". he pulled me on a slate being 2mm out of whack. i'm not exaggerating!!!!! 2mm! he told me it was half an inch so i put a tape on it. its a bloody quarry slate, they can vary up to 5 mm.they are irregular by nature. that was enough for me. he expected a welsh look for a spanish price. there is a reason welsh blue bangors are 6.00 euros each. not that i'm mocking the spanish slates, they looked great on the roof. but different quarries produce different looks.i even suggested that he go look at a finished spanish slate roof so he knew what to expect. he wouldnt do that. in the end i told him i could not achieve the finish he wanted with the materials provided and he would be better off finding a slater who could. he also had two circumference roofs on the front of the house, what chance would i have had there. i would have not been able to meet his expectations. he wanted a perfect job done using cheaper not so perfect materials. ah well i'll put it down to a bad experience.
cheers 
jason


----------



## OUTLAW (Feb 16, 2009)

Good for you!

If he calss you back in desperation, be sure to increase your rates and get it all in writting.


----------



## 2ndGen (Nov 23, 2008)

I once had this heated debate on the pitch of a roof with a Carpenter and a Project Manager.

I eyeballed it at 3:12.

He insisted it was less than 2:12.

So, I took out a level and my tape measure and sure enough, 
the F-in' 2nd Generation Roofer with over 25+ years of experience was right!

Did they concede?

Of course not!

But, I smiled for the rest of the day!



It's hard to walk away especially during hard times, but in the end, it'll be the smart thing to do.

I myself just walked away from a project that 
(if it had gone through with no hiccups) 
would've filled my coffers for the winter. 
But, if it had just one problem, it would've sunk me. 

Truth be told, there no longer is a knot in my stomach from the fear of taking this job on. 
It would've been an easy 2 or 3 day gig, but the homeowner was dragging it out too much 
and wasn't keeping up with his end of the deal, so, I let it go.

It's like fishing and struggling with an unedible poisonous fish.

For all the work you put in to reel him in, 
it just isn't worth it and not only becomes a waste of time,
but potentially, a serious liability.

Now don't look back, but...


----------



## 2ndGen (Nov 23, 2008)

One more thing..."jobs" are like municipal buses.

Every 15 minutes or so, 
there'll be another one coming your way.

Sometimes their early.
Sometimes their late.
But their rarely "on" time.

:laughing:


----------



## aussieroofer (Jun 10, 2009)

truth be known..... i slept like a baby when i walked away from the job, even though there is bugger all work at the moment. i think that says a lot about that particular job.


----------



## tinner666 (Oct 28, 2008)

Sounds like one I ran from recently.


----------



## Phoenix (Sep 2, 2009)

With the economy the way it is it's hard to walk away from a job. While I've had 34 years in the building/remodeling industry owning several successful businesses, I'm new to the roofing business per say. However, one thing never changes regardless of what business you are in. A bad customer is a bad customer. Anyone who has been in business for themselves for any length of time knows that a happy cusomer will tell 2-3 other people how pleased they are with you but a disgruntled customer will tell 10 or more people. Some of them seem to make it their life's mission to destroy you. That being said know when to walk away. In this original post it was said that the customer wanted a perfect job. BIG RED FLAG! There is no such thing. 

I've never seen an industry like the construction industry where people don't take the time to thoroughly check the job out and make a detailed estimate of what is expected of the contractor and what is expected of the home owner. When you take a job you in essence go into partnership with the homeowner. That being said wouldn't you want to set the expectations for each of you if you were going into a partnereship with someone. If you don't do this EVERY TIME then get your big boy britches on because you're going to get burned soon. If you take the time up front to have a thorough understanding of the scope of work then when something like this comes up you can write a "Change Order" for additional work and the homeowner should not have any problem with it because they know what they agreed to. I also don't like sugar coating what a "Change Order" is. You can give a "Contract" or a "Change Order" whatever pretty unassuming name you want but as for me, I want my homewowner to know that they are signing a binding Contract with me and there are expectations on both our parts. As for a "Change Order" it is just that, a change they wanted to make to the original "Contract" and IT WILL COST MORE! IF THEY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT RUN DON'T WALK! 

I know I'm getting on my soap box a little but so many people in this business run their business in a fly-by-night manner. Guys if you don't know how to do it right you will be living job-to-job the rest of your life and at the end all you will have is your truck and a few tools. You will have nothing else to show for it. I've seen it all of my adult life. If you don't know how to really make a life, not just a living, in this business then get a Mentor. Don't let your pride get in the way. Ask for help! Join an association and network with the people you most want to learn from and emulate them. Even if you have to pay them a little along the way for them taking the time to sit down and teach you it will be worth it for you in the long run. If you can't find someone to do it for free then pay someone or several people a little. If you can't afford to pay someone to help you then you definitely need help. Don't let your pride get in the way. Most people in the business, that are doing well, like to tell people how they made it. I've done it for free and I've done it for fee. It gives me great pride looking back to know that I have helped others create a great life in this business. It also makes me very sad at those I tried to help that just wouldn't listen and had sooo much potential.

I know I've said too much but bottom line if it doesn't feel like a good deal for you it most likely isn't.


----------



## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

Welcome to the site Phoenix.

Why don't you go ahead and post an introduction thread about your current and past experiences and where you are from?

Ed


----------

