# Re-Roof Question



## rwbil (Jul 7, 2012)

Just had a re-roof done and had several issues that concerned me, but I wanted to get other contractors' opinions on 2 of them. This roofing contractor uses sub-contractors and no one from the company oversees the sub-contractor's work except a Project Manager who seems to know very little about roofing and who was seldom at the property. 

 Plywood - The roof had OSB Plywood and I fully expected a few sheets would need to be replaced, but when the Project Manager called me and said he bought 18 sheets of Plywood I wanted to meet him at the property to see the sheathing for myself. We walked the roof. The Project Manager stated just because we bought 18 sheets does not mean that much plywood needs to be replaced. The Subcontractors had already removed 8 sheets and we agreed another sheet would be needed for the valley. That is what we agreed to. And I was crystal clear no additional sheets were to be removed unless I was contacted and kept informed. The Project Manager did not call me about any additional sheets needing to be replaced. Then I am sent a bill for replacing 18 sheets of OSB Plywood. 

When I asked about this the main manager said well the roof was not fully torn off and the project manager could not see the entire roof at that time. Well, about 95% had been torn off and we walked the roof. So they just happen to use exactly the number of OSB plywood that was bought, not a single sheet less or more. And then he just says the roof had bad wood and they had to replace it per the contract and building codes. But my issue was the fact we walked the roof and agreed 9 sheets would be replaced and I was to be informed if additional sheets were needed and I was not. 
Now in fairness, the main manager has said he would work with me on the cost, though it sounded like he was only going to reduce a little bit off. My biggest issue is the next issue. 

Torch Down Roof- There was a small part of the roof that is flat and they did torch down. Below are the pictures I took. You can see the round patch. Also where my fingers are you can actually push down on the bitumen and it feels spongy like not attached to the roof. I sent this picture to the main manager and even asked if he could come out to the property and walk it with me to check to see the roof was done properly and instead of being concerned; his response was, “You got a great roof, I have receipts for the wood I bought, do you expect me to bring out a CertainTeed expert.”
This was not a repair, but a $15K new re-roof. I just wanted to get other expert opinions if a new roof with a round ugly looking patch normal/acceptable or should the roofer have it fixed. 

In addition, there were other concerns, such as they did a speed cut / CA cut valley (picture attached) when I stated I wanted a closed cut valley.


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## roofermann (Jul 7, 2012)

Go over this clueless sounding "project manager's" head and talk to the owner if you can. And that patch is likely from where somebody stepped in the valley and ripped the mod bit, proper repair would have been an at least a 24in x 36in piece from under the shingles to out on the flat section. As for the getting a manufacturers rep out, you should call CT and see what they say.


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## rwbil (Jul 7, 2012)

roofermann said:


> Go over this clueless sounding "project manager's" head and talk to the owner if you can. And that patch is likely from where somebody stepped in the valley and ripped the mod bit, proper repair would have been an at least a 24in x 36in piece from under the shingles to out on the flat section. As for the getting a manufacturers rep out, you should call CT and see what they say.


I have a picture from when that flat part was originally done many years back so you can see the entire area. Again these are older pictures so you can see the layout. I need to get current pictures showing that entire section. Even though I call it a flat roof there is a slope with one bit mod sheet under the higher one.

Trying to better understand how a proper repair would be done. The bit mod needs to run under the other bit mod and under the shingles. I would think that the entire row of damaged bit mod would need to be replaced. But not sure if that is even possible without damaging the other bit mod and the underlayment, which is probably why they did the patch work.


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## roofermann (Jul 7, 2012)

Sorry, I meant to add that the pieces I described would have to be put in from where the tear is up to where the top course of mod bit goes under the shingles on the steeper face, where that chimney is.


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## rwbil (Jul 7, 2012)

roofermann said:


> Sorry, I meant to add that the pieces I described would have to be put in from where the tear is up to where the top course of mod bit goes under the shingles on the steeper face, where that chimney is.


The roofer just says the county inspector passed the inspection so it is OK. County inspections are a joke as many are being done by video due to Covid and most of the time they do not even get on the roof. From what I understand part of the code is they must follow the manufacturing instructions. So when a worker damages the bit mod is putting a round patch the manufactures specification for installing bit mod material? From what I read you must have overlapping rows of the Certainteed Flintlastic GTA material.

I agree with you, the new rows of bit mod should be run from the top part down past the damage. Deciding if best to try and see if I can get the county to change the Pass or fight it out with the contractor. Any advice.


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## roofermann (Jul 7, 2012)

I'd call certainteed, and have them send a rep out to look at things. That patch is not recommended practice. Did the sales person say anything about being a "gold star contractor"? Here's some info on CT's program; What is a Credentialed Contractor?


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## rwbil (Jul 7, 2012)

roofermann said:


> I'd call certainteed, and have them send a rep out to look at things. That patch is not recommended practice. Did the sales person say anything about being a "gold star contractor"? Here's some info on CT's program; What is a Credentialed Contractor?


The material was Certainteed Flinlastic GTA and the roofer is a Certainteed Select ShingleMaster and he just stated how that was perfectly acceptable repaired as he tried to pressure me to write him a check. At the time I was not sure if that was an acceptable repair or not and thought even if it was an acceptable repair, I paid to have a new roof and did not expect it to look patched.


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## RooferE (Jan 10, 2022)

Having a patch a new roof isn't ideal but sometimes it happens. If anything it was probably a very small pinhole and they put a dab of caulk on it and then put the patch over so I can't imagine it ever leaking.

Also the California cut valley falls under the category of a "closed valley". A closed valley means that there are shingles in the valley as opposed to metal or roll roofing such as SBS. The name "California cut valley" is a a misnomer because there actually is no cutting in a California valley but nonetheless it is still considered a closed cut valley. Your roofers took what you said as meaning you just didn't want a woven valley. 

I can't speak for the whole OSB ordeal, sounds like that's between you and them. All I gotta say is you you can't expect quality when you hire a "roofing company" that is really just a sales company that subcontracts to the lowest labor crew and pockets the rest. Most of those companies management knows nothing about roofing and relies on the knowledge of the subcontractor of the week. Interestingly enough many roof salesmen or "project managers" as they call them are actually ex-car salesmen. There will always be a difference in quality when it comes to 1099 workers vs W2.


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## rwbil (Jul 7, 2012)

RooferE said:


> Having a patch a new roof isn't ideal but sometimes it happens. If anything it was probably a very small pinhole and they put a dab of caulk on it and then put the patch over so I can't imagine it ever leaking.
> 
> Also the California cut valley falls under the category of a "closed valley". A closed valley means that there are shingles in the valley as opposed to metal or roll roofing such as SBS. The name "California cut valley" is a a misnomer because there actually is no cutting in a California valley but nonetheless it is still considered a closed cut valley. Your roofers took what you said as meaning you just didn't want a woven valley.
> 
> I can't speak for the whole OSB ordeal, sounds like that's between you and them. All I gotta say is you you can't expect quality when you hire a "roofing company" that is really just a sales company that subcontracts to the lowest labor crew and pockets the rest. Most of those companies management knows nothing about roofing and relies on the knowledge of the subcontractor of the week. Interestingly enough many roof salesmen or "project managers" as they call them are actually ex-car salesmen. There will always be a difference in quality when it comes to 1099 workers vs W2.


I agree 100% regarding subcontractors, but how in the world do you find a reputable company that will be there to back up their work that uses W2 employees? As far as I can tell, at least in my area, they have gone the way of the dinosaur. 

When looking I went to sites like GAF and looked for their Master Elite. Yes, I know that mostly means the company bought a lot of shingles, but they supposed got some training and they have reviews. Yes, I know reviews can be faked. These are also bigger companies that have been in business a while and hopefully will be there to honor their workmanship warranty. And every one of those companies used subcontractors. 

I would love to find a company with employees that have been with them for years doing the roofs who are paid a salary and not a fixed fee, which just encourages the quickest job possible. And such a company to have a reputation to back up their work. How in the world do you find such a company??


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## RooferE (Jan 10, 2022)

rwbil said:


> I agree 100% regarding subcontractors, but how in the world do you find a reputable company that will be there to back up their work that uses W2 employees? As far as I can tell, at least in my area, they have gone the way of the dinosaur.
> 
> When looking I went to sites like GAF and looked for their Master Elite. Yes, I know that mostly means the company bought a lot of shingles, but they supposed got some training and they have reviews. Yes, I know reviews can be faked. These are also bigger companies that have been in business a while and hopefully will be there to honor their workmanship warranty. And every one of those companies used subcontractors.
> 
> I would love to find a company with employees that have been with them for years doing the roofs who are paid a salary and not a fixed fee, which just encourages the quickest job possible. And such a company to have a reputation to back up their work. How in the world do you find such a company??


I'm sorry to hear that it sounds like you don't have a lot of options where you're at. Only thing I would be worried about on that roof is the flat roof patch if anything. I would recommend just calling the company up and telling them you aren't happy with the patch and you want them to send someone back out to overkill it by either caulking the seams or putting on a larger patch.


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## rexroof (11 mo ago)

rwbil said:


> I agree 100% regarding subcontractors, but how in the world do you find a reputable company that will be there to back up their work that uses W2 employees? As far as I can tell, at least in my area, they have gone the way of the dinosaur.
> 
> When looking I went to sites like GAF and looked for their Master Elite. Yes, I know that mostly means the company bought a lot of shingles, but they supposed got some training and they have reviews. Yes, I know reviews can be faked. These are also bigger companies that have been in business a while and hopefully will be there to honor their workmanship warranty. And every one of those companies used subcontractors.
> 
> I would love to find a company with employees that have been with them for years doing the roofs who are paid a salary and not a fixed fee, which just encourages the quickest job possible. And such a company to have a reputation to back up their work. How in the world do you find such a company??


I have very good subcontractors that I screen. I have extensive experience and expertise. Most of the roofing businesses use subcontractors but lie about it. If the person doing the hiring doesn’t know enough they hire the wrong subs. All to common problem. Good crews don’t want to be employees. They make more money by being subs. Fact! GAF Master Elite is a $7000 fee, and they limit the # of them in an area. They don’t sell enough Golden Pledge warranties they could get the boot. Reading the warranty it’s watered down in my opinion. GAF has been hit with several class action lawsuits since the 70’s fir failures of one kind or another. Reputable roofers can be big or small. Are they qualified to make a proper roofing specifications for job. Most aren’t unfortunately.


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