# how to approach spot repairs 500 square roof?



## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

I've got a head scratcher where the roof has multiple sections, but the section in question is a 580 square ballasted EPDM about 15-20 years old. There are some signs of age and some minor leaks. Various minor repairs need to be made, primarily with seam tape and flashing membrane etc... 

The problem I am having is this, (and maybe it's more of a sales thing, but I wanted to get some commercial guys involved in thought process) when I pressed the customer for a budget they claim they really didn't have one. I explained that I could spend a day, a week or two weeks doing various repairs and the scope of what we would actually do would depend on their budget. Do they want us to do everything or how do we prioritize? The answer I got was to just tell us how many men for how many days and we could put a cap on it. Again I explained that I could spend a day or a week depending on what they want me to do and I feel like I am just going to pluck a number from thin air and hope it's within their budget.

I then threw out the idea that I could inspect the entire roof area all seams penetrations and flashing details and make a list of each and every damaged or worn area in need of repair and would put together a report with a cost analysis. They didn't want to pay for this report and I wasn't going to spend 3 days on my time doing a free inspection. 

The way I am looking at this, if they want my crerw to inspect and repair each seam and penetration I'm looking at 14 crew days. But that's just a guess.

How would you go about approcahing this type of situation?


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## English Roofer (Dec 26, 2008)

Hi Grumpy, this is a tricky one,i got asked to look for a leak(leaks) on a ballasted EPDM roof a few years back(on a smaller scale to yours),to say it was a nightmare is an under statement! there were small punchure holes everywhere,i think they ran out of the rounded stones and decided to use anything they could get there hands on,needless to say the stones had pierced the rubber.
Also the flashings had failed and some of the joints, i priced it on a day rate basis which they were ok with, i also charged for my inspection time but offered it back if the went ahead with the job(which they did).
Not sure if i would fancy doing it again to be honest, my only advice would not to go in too cheap on this one!
Regards
Dave


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

Who ya supporting? you or them, I would bid what you need to bid, let them decide ya or nay...


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Question is, how do you bid. That's the point? There's way too many unknowns! Best guess is a guess. I'm not trying to be cheap, but the last thing I want to do is throw out a price and half way through the job realize I'm dead. It would take 3 days to do a full inspection and detail all the minor problems with the roof and put together an accurate proposal. That's not somethign I'm going to do, so I submitted my proposal with a ball park for replacement and T&M for the repairs.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

List and price what you see and allow for EXTRAS..:thumbup:


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## Dunn Wright Systems (Feb 17, 2010)

Hey Grumpy, my thoughts are: spinning my tires trying to convince someone what to do is not worth my time, so i choose to do this, i estimate and submit my price, then offer them a rebate when they choose my company to re-roof the roof down the road..But definateley do not under bid the job!!!! how about charging them for the full inspection then submitting your proposal???


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Hello Dunn, as stated, submitting a price is a daunting task because it'd be impossible to detail everythign that's wrong with the roof without spending many days thuroughly inspecting it. Also as stated they did not want to pay for this inspection, that was my opening offer. 

You can't lose on time and material so rather than as you said, spinning my tires, I just submitted my bid that way. If they don't like it, I can bring up the idea of the paid inspection again. I'm more than happy to give them a fixed bid, but don't want to take the risk of guessing what needs to be done, nor waste many days inspecting unless I am being compensated.


Interloc, the problem is in the few hours I spent examining the roof, there is alot that I didn't look at. It's a ballasted EPDM roof, there is alot that is hidden. You can have a split seam right beneath your foot and wouldn't know it unless you spent a few hours removing rock ballast.


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## buildpinnacle (Apr 18, 2009)

First, I would sell them on the maintenance report. You can usually get .04 to .06 cents per sf for a fully intrusive roof inspection report. There are tons of examples and starting ideas floating around the web if you don't have a standard report format. I diagram the roof with EagleView as it only costs me $75 and looks very professional in my report which I credit for, naturally. We use roof chalk and document all maintenance issues, problem areas, debris on roof, preventable maintenance, etc. I provide a shopping list for repairs and a budgetary analysis for keeping the roof in a repairable state. I also do an analysis of the recomended mainteance vs. full replacement. If your maintenance costs ever exceed 15% per year of the replacement cost, you are making a better financial decision to re-roof. You could break the repairs down into a good better best scenerio as well. They are asking for your expertise. Lead them to a decision and sell them on what you think they need. If they just want their leaks fixed, you should be able to put a price together for that based on estimated man hours and number of leaks. Once the locations are pin pointed, moving the ballast, locating, marking, and repairing the membrane are easily figured. On EPDM, you will see the moisture coming up through a fracture, tear, or puncture in the membrane or seams when the dew is burning off in the morning. Inpsect at that time and mark the areas for later reference.


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## Acubis (Jan 10, 2011)

*A successful approach*

The largest commercial flat roof contractor I know only does spot repairs one way.

Time and Material. List a man hour charge on your quote tell them you will do what needs to be done to ensure a water tight system and send your guys out.

INVOICE weekly - you'll get a call if you've exceeded their budget. But more than likely it's hard to say no if they are already working and telling you they need to keep going.

www.researchroofing.com


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## billwestroofing (Dec 31, 2010)

My 2cents is prob to late lol. But in would price for repair of leaks only the option out other issues you see on a walk the roof inspection. If they want more then sell them the manta. Package listed above


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

I think my point was that to do an inspection would have taken days. Days which I had no intention of spending on a "Free" estimate. 

Anyways I wrote a report with some photographs and detailed some obvious problems gave a ball park for replacement and bid the repairs time and materials. We re-roofed a small section near the very end of last year and will possible be doing some spot repairs this year.


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