# chicago price est.



## terry koz (Jun 15, 2009)

what is a fair price for labor on a single shingle tear off 30sq walk on easy acess roof chicago il.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

YOu're not going to get an answer of any quality by asking a question like that. If you would like an esitimate from a competant licensed roofing contractor call my office at 847-729-3496 

If you are a contractor thinking of doing a side roof job... If you are not a licensed roofing contractor you should not be roofing in the state of IL. If you were lciensed you'd probably know what the job should cost.


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## terry koz (Jun 15, 2009)

hey grumpy, i am licensed carpenter contractor doing a friend a favor. but thank you!


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Then you're breaking the law because Illinois requires a state ROOFING license to legally install roofs. 

What municipality issued your carpentry license, as there is no state carpentry license that I am aware of?


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## terry koz (Jun 15, 2009)

no wonder they call you dumpy i mean grumpy your right I have to go every town or city yearly to purchase a license. I am sure your bartender appreciates the extra time You have with a license to stumble statewide. Does il. require an 8th. grade education for a roofing license? thanks again for making me smile today grumpy


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

terry koz said:


> no wonder they call you dumpy i mean grumpy your right I have to go every town or city yearly to purchase a license. I am sure your bartender appreciates the extra time You have with a license to stumble statewide. Does il. require an 8th. grade education for a roofing license? thanks again for making me smile today grumpy


Thanks for showing us your level of intelligence, Terry. Perhaps next time you want to insult someone else’s intelligence you'll consider using proper capitalization and punctuation. Now I know I am not known for my typing skills, however I make it a point to proof read when I am going to call someone else’s competency into play, I certainly won’t leave mine to question. 

Do me a favor and give "your friend" the phone number to a real roofer so he can call someone to fix your mistakes. We make ALOT of money following guys like you around. Maybe you want to check out this thread… http://www.roofingtalk.com/f2/doesnt-look-right-but-i-cant-quite-put-my-finger-355/ Probably installed by a city licensed carpenter LOL

Those city licenses are a joke. Anyone with $35 can buy one. I have them too. They are just another way for the municipalities to get their hands in your wallet. What qualifies to you to be a ROOFER, Mr. Carpenter? A city CARPENTRY license? 


By the way the answer to your question is: Just enough money for beer, cigarettes and a cheese burger. That seems to be the going rate for a side job Bob such as yourself.


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## LA_nailer (Apr 3, 2009)

thumbs up to grumpy !!


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## terry koz (Jun 15, 2009)

:laughing: grump yesterday a smile today a laugh. your so funny,good news i picked up a couple lay downs while taking measurements. an il.roofing license is no assurance of good work, a tard can get a qualified party to take the test which is no measure of iq. he can then bus in his playmates.I hope you have a big bus grump because i plan on roofing the USA.please join me for a cheesburger and a beer.thanks again little guy!


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

If you're so good why not have a license? Why break the law? Why be a hack? Even if you do good work, if you are working outside of the law you ARE a hack. Who's getting your permits? The home owners? Why circumvent the system? The system is there to protect the consumer from hacks. Sure it's not fool proof, but it helps. The license is not an assurance of good work, by no means, however the lack of a license is almost an assurance of poor work. Afterall if you were good, wouldn't you be licensed.

Do you even have roofing insurance? No I bet you have carpentry insurance. I hope you don't get hurt when you're on that roof, your insurance isn't goign to cover you or your employees for breaking the law. That's insurance fraud too buddy.

Too many guys with a ladder and a hammer think they are a roofer. Roofing is a specialized trade. Sure anyone can shingle. The only difference between a seasoned shingler and a novice is speed. However roofing is more than shingling. It's knowing underlayment detail, valley detail, and various flashing details, and ventilation requirements. These are the parts that will determine the roof's quality but novices all to often fail to get right. 

The difference between a god roofer and a bad roofer is not usually apparent on day one. It's usually 4 or 5 years down the road when the mistakes start to become a problem. 


BTW you're only laughing at yourself, bud. Nothing I am saying is funny. Any consumer coming into this forum reading this should be fearful of hiring an unlicensed contractor to work on their property. The licensing is there to protect you. If the contractor is soooo good, why is he not licensed in the trade he is operating? Why do you think there is a license requirement for roofing? Roofing protects your building and everything within it. One mistake can cost you thousands of dollars in repairs. 

Would you hire an unlicensed plumber? The unlicensed handy man toying with your plumbing can flood your house. Would you hire an unlicensed electrician? That trunk slammer can burn down your house and kill your family.

Food for thought... There are ONLY 3 licensed trades in the state of Illinois. Roofing, Plumbing and Electrician. Yeah, those are the important trades where if you get it wrong BAD things happen. 

Last comment... I only wish that being an unlicensed hack were a felony, punishable with jail time, in Illinois like it is in Florida. Hacks who operate within our trade, but are too lazy or too stupid to seek out a license are nothing more than a detriment to our fine trade. 

Leave the ROOFING to the ROOFERS.


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## terry koz (Jun 15, 2009)

Dear Grumpy, Just for you I downloaded the license info packet and I will have my girl fill it out. FYI my insurance does cover all my guys from setting the steel to putting the last piece of ridge on. IN better times I always sub-contracted the ROOFING,but if I have to choose between letting them sit or have them shingle,they shingle. My blueprints dont give the ROOFERS any choice for proper ventilation,or underlayment. I cut it all in for them per specs, or my judgement. Personally I feel all trades including ROOFERS should be professonaly schooled,and serve an apprenticeship.Not just buy a bond, insurance,and a license. In my experience, a carpenter who can cut a roof, install it, and sheet it, has no problem cutting in a valley. Thanks for your concern about who should be a felon. Statistically, I bet there are more roofers in prison then carpenters. 
Terry


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

I just want to chime in with one piece that you stated that I totally agree with.

What good does it do for the owner of the company or a Qualifying Party to be the only one that is licensed?

Every roofer should be held to certain and ostensibly, very strict guidelines for performance.

But, we work in the system that we are dealt with.

I don't see why a trained professional carpenter, who by their own union in Illinois, allows shngling, to not be included as a licensed roofing contractor myself, with the usual exception that most carpenters do not do, nor like to do, roofing on a daily basis.

Grumpy, 

Look up Prate Roofing in Wauconda and their lawsuit against the Carpenters Union.

I have the final verdict court documents if you need me to post them.

But, the point is, that they were sometimes allowed to pay by the sqaure for their shinglers, but they also were then forced to change their method of pay to hourly, if I remember correctly, while other signatory contractors in the Carpenters Union were allowed to pay by the square always.

Finally, the State allows a Home Owner to do their own shingling, which obviously is their right of ownership, but I do believe that the inspection process should be stricter for all roofs installed to get rid of the curdle and only leave the cream of the crop around.

Ed

Here, I found the links:

http://www.state.il.us/court/Opinions/AppellateCourt/2006/2ndDistrict/January/Html/2050534.htm

http://media1.suntimes.com/multimed...ecision.pdf_20081202_17_26_41_29.imageContent

http://media1.suntimes.com/multimed...ecision.pdf_20081202_17_26_41_29.imageContent


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Statistically I bet roofers install better roofs than carpenters.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Ed I am all for more trade education. I am all for stricter enforcement of licensing. Should the installer be licensed, sure why not. I'm all for air tight, iron clad, lock down inspections. Yes! Do it! We need a level playing field because too many hacks and carpentrs cross the line into our trade and that gives professional roofers a bad name.

Can a carpenter install roofing? Sure, why not. Can a roofer frame an addition? Sure why not. The roofer is going to install that roof faster and with less rookie mistakes because it's something he does often. He's got the experience and the muscle memory. The carpenter is going to frame that addition faster and better because that's what he he does more often.

I've no problem with a plumber or janitor installing the roof as long as he is properly trained, properly insured, properly licensed and going to adhere to building codes and adhere to good roofing practice. But then again if the janitor or plumber were licensed roofers, then they'd be roofers... would they not? 


The bottom line is a criminal (yes literally CRIMINAL since by your own admission you are intending to circumvent the LAW and install a roof without the required credentials) comes into the forum and asks professional licensed roofers how he can steal from our pockets. No that aint going to fly with me around. Dude! The guy doesn't even know what to charge for the job, that doesn't build any confidence in his roofing ability. 

Now let's talk about insurance. You may be covered to install that roof, I don't know, I have not seen your policy; however I am willing to bet on your WC you're not going to tell them at audit time that you're installing roofs now (42%) vs doing carpentry (25%) Yeah big difference. 


Ed you know my opinion on unions. <sticks out his tongue> 

FYI Prate is a state licensed roofing contractor so I have no problem with them, weather they choose to be in the roofers union or carpenters union, I can care less.


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## OUTLAW (Feb 16, 2009)

Grumpy;?
The bottom line is a criminal (yes literally CRIMINAL since by your own admission you are intending to circumvent the LAW and install a roof without the required credentials) comes into the forum and asks professional licensed roofers how he can steal from our pockets. No that aint going to fly with me around. Dude! The guy doesn't even know what to charge for the job said:


> :bangin: Gettem Grumpy


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## Mattp (Nov 30, 2008)

Ed the Roofer said:


> Finally, the State allows a Home Owner to do their own shingling, which obviously is their right of ownership, but I do believe that the inspection process should be stricter for all roofs installed to get rid of the curdle and only leave the cream of the crop around.


So you think because they own their house they have the right to shinlge it? Yeah they probably do. Do you also believe that a person should be able to perform their own heart surgery?:laughing:


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

Mattp said:


> So you think because they own their house they have the right to shinlge it? Yeah they probably do. Do you also believe that a person should be able to perform their own heart surgery?:laughing:


Feel free to cut throught the rib cage cartilage and pop open the hood with a chest spreader on yourself anytime you feel like it.

Read what I said first, before you start throwing around the poor abused smiley around haphazardly.

Ed


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