# Roofing Safety for "Old School" Roofers



## RoofingSafety (Oct 5, 2009)

My dad was telling me last night - who is an old school roofer - about his trouble adjusting to the new roof safety legislations. 

He has worked for over 20 years in construction using homemade welded roof brackets, wearing work boots, a tool belt and rarely a safety hat. That's it.

He has recently come into trouble with the "safety police" with warnings to wear compliant safety gear. He vouches that it slows him down and becomes more of a hazard. 

Do you guys/gals have any tips for getting used to using safety equipment? How do you know what the law is and what isn't when being approached by safety parol?


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## English Roofer (Dec 26, 2008)

RoofingSafety said:


> My dad was telling me last night - who is an old school roofer - about his trouble adjusting to the new roof safety legislations.
> 
> He has worked for over 20 years in construction using homemade welded roof brackets, wearing work boots, a tool belt and rarely a safety hat. That's it.
> 
> ...



There used to be a sign on a site i worked on,No Hat,No Boots No Hi Vis jacket .....No WORK !


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## daviddeschaine (May 26, 2010)

*It has been a tough change for all of us!*

6 Rope laying all over the roof, while you are trying to install.

*It's Dangerous...*



RoofingSafety said:


> My dad was telling me last night - who is an old school roofer - about his trouble adjusting to the new roof safety legislations.
> 
> He has worked for over 20 years in construction using homemade welded roof brackets, wearing work boots, a tool belt and rarely a safety hat. That's it.
> 
> ...


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

Safety is 95% common sense,if your in the 5% bracket,..what the hell are ya on the roof for??..who the hell makes these stupid rules anyways? I've been roofin 30yrs now and i know how your dad feels, IT SUCKS!!


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## RoofingSafety (Oct 5, 2009)

*Roofing Safety Resource*

Contractors that have been in the roofing trade for many years could do this in their sleep. They get into a rountine process and anything new can totally throw them off. 

I think whether it's safety gear or another worker - it takes times to get used to the new object. The solution seems to slow down. 

But another thing with these safety rules, how do you know what IS the law and what ISN'T. Where do you get your resources or training?


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## phalanx (Oct 29, 2010)

*Construction safety consultant*

I have been a construction safety consultant for many years. OSHA has been around since 1971. There is no excuse for not knowing the safety regulations as it applies to roofers. Look in 29 CFR 1926.500. That is Subpart M -- Fall Protection. Go to OSHA.gov and look up the regulation.

Old school roofers, if they have not been already seriously injured or killed in a fall, are living on borrowed time. The more chances they take by not using fall protection equipment on a roof, the more likely they are to fall and be seriously injured or killed.

Falls in construction account for about 1/3 of all fatalities in construction work every year. Roofers and iron workers are the two trades that account for the majority of fatalities due to falls.

Safety is both a habit and a state of mind. You either work safely or you work unsafely. If you compromise your personal safety during roofing work, then you are letting down those that love and depend on you.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

phalanx said:


> Old school roofers, if they have not been already seriously injured or killed in a fall, are living on borrowed time. The more chances they take by not using fall protection equipment on a roof, the more likely they are to fall and be seriously injured or killed.


Nice talk...just curious, you ever been a roofer? I mean who makes these rules? a Roofer or a desk jockey??..and another thing every time i here someone getting hurt its usually the green horn..not the old skool roofer..


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

RoofingSafety said:


> But another thing with these safety rules, how do you know what IS the law and what ISN'T. Where do you get your resources or training?


 Around here its different rules, depends which safety guy shows up...


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## phalanx (Oct 29, 2010)

*Construction safety consultant*



Interloc said:


> Nice talk...just curious, you ever been a roofer? I mean who makes these rules? a Roofer or a desk jockey??..and another thing every time i here someone getting hurt its usually the green horn..not the old skool roofer..


No, I have never been a roofer. I am on construction sites every day trying to persuade construction workers to work safely. You don't have to be a roofer to know what is safe and what is not safe.

In the United States, the Occupational Safety & Health Administration (OSHA) makes the rules in collaboration with industry trade associations, labor unions, safety professionals, and other interested parties. For example, the National Roofing Contractors Association (NRCA) works closely with OSHA.

It is not true that green horns are the ones getting hurt. One fatalitiy that I investigated was a 29 year old roofing foreman who had 10 years of experience. He became complacent about his need for fall protection and fell 32 feet to his death. He left behind a young wife and child. His fall protection harness was in the job box on the roof. He never put it on which was a violation of a company rule and an OSHA regulation.

It's very simple. If you take enough chances with your personal safety, then you are probably going to be seriously injured or killed.


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## phalanx (Oct 29, 2010)

*Construction safety consultant*



Interloc said:


> Around here its different rules, depends which safety guy shows up...


When I am trying to educate construction workers on safety, I tell them "Safety is what you do when no one is looking". If you take safety seriously, then you are going to do your work safely whether there are rules or not. Safety is an attitude and a state of mind. 

Many people have the attitude that they are going to live forever. However, the longer you live, the more you become aware of your own mortality. If you have a family and loved ones that depend on you, then you owe to them to get home at the end of the day in one piece.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

phalanx said:


> No, I have never been a roofer. I am on construction sites every day trying to persuade construction workers to work safely. You don't have to be a roofer to know what is safe and what is not safe.
> 
> In the United States, the Occupational Safety & Health Administration (OSHA) makes the rules in collaboration with industry trade associations, labor unions, safety professionals, and other interested parties. For example, the National Roofing Contractors Association (NRCA) works closely with OSHA.
> 
> ...


 Tell me this, have any of these guys done a tearoff of cedar with a rope on? try it, then tell me how safe it is. I have seen more guys unsafe with all the ropes on the roof and hoses,NRCA works with OSHA? is that the roofers who are still roofing or the office dept. of NRCA?


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

phalanx said:


> When I am trying to educate construction workers on safety, I tell them "Safety is what you do when no one is looking". If you take safety seriously, then you are going to do your work safely whether there are rules or not. Safety is an attitude and a state of mind.
> .


 I believe this is what i first said, 95% common sense, if your in the 5% bracket "get the hell off the roof!"


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## phalanx (Oct 29, 2010)

Interloc said:


> Tell me this, have any of these guys done a tearoff of cedar with a rope on? try it, then tell me how safe it is. I have seen more guys unsafe with all the ropes on the roof and hoses,NRCA works with OSHA? is that the roofers who are still roofing or the office dept. of NRCA?


I have no idea if "any of these guys have done a tearoff" or not. Maybe yes, maybe no.

Let me ask you which is safer. Doing a roof tearoff with ropes and hoses on the roof or falling to the ground because you have zero fall protection? I have been on different job sites (and roofs) when roofing crews were doing tearoofs with fall protection and tearoffs without fall protection.

One slip or trip and you're gone! I don't care how long you have been working on roofs without fall protection. It is just a matter of time before you become a statistic. That's reality and the only way to prevent that is to properly use fall protection equipment. Many roofers have never been properly trained to use fall protection equipment in the first place! 

Years ago, NRCA worked with OSHA to develop comprehensive safety programs for the roofing industry. NRCA developed what works for roofers in the field with roofing professionals. If a roofing company uses the NRCA safety manual as a template for their in-house safety program, then that company will significantly reduce their injury rate and have zero fatalities due to falls. But that only works if both the owners AND the employees are committed to safety. I've seen it work, so don't tell me it doesn't.

No, I am not a member of or a shill for NRCA. I know what type of safety progam works as a construction safety consultant.


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## English Roofer (Dec 26, 2008)

I still cant believe you guys work mainly with out scaffolding! its madness, having a safe working platform has to make the job both safer and quicker.
don't get me wrong i still do repairs with a ladder and a cat ladder(chicken) but i wont do what you guys call a tear off with out scaffolding.
regards
Dave


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

phalanx said:


> Let me ask you which is safer. Doing a roof tearoff with ropes and hoses on the roof or falling to the ground because you have zero fall protection? I have been on different job sites (and roofs) when roofing crews were doing tearoofs with fall protection and tearoffs without fall protection.
> .


 Its when the ropes are on the roof is when i see guys tripping over them,when there not there, guess what? no ones tripping..hence no one falling,as i said before its fricken just plain common sense...:yes:


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## RoofingSafety (Oct 5, 2009)

phalanx said:


> No, I have never been a roofer. I am on construction sites every day trying to persuade construction workers to work safely. You don't have to be a roofer to know what is safe and what is not safe.
> 
> In the United States, the Occupational Safety & Health Administration (OSHA) makes the rules in collaboration with industry trade associations, labor unions, safety professionals, and other interested parties. For example, the National Roofing Contractors Association (NRCA) works closely with OSHA.
> 
> ...


Thank you for getting involved in the discussion. Your experience puts a different perspective of the purpose of roofing safety regulations. It's not all about giving out fines - it's about preventing accidents like this.

Fall protection laws is like the law to wear your seat belt. Before it was a note to wear at your caution. When the law was first implemented, it was easy to forget to buckle up. Now it is second nature. Once you break the rules once and get away with it, it is easier to do it the next time and develop a habit. There are more pros to developing the positive habits.


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## daviddeschaine (May 26, 2010)

*Has Anyone ever Been Hit By OSHA*

Hello All,

Have you ever been hit with an OSHA Fine?


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## phalanx (Oct 29, 2010)

Interloc said:


> Its when the ropes are on the roof is when i see guys tripping over them,when there not there, guess what? no ones tripping..hence no one falling,as i said before its fricken just plain common sense...:yes:


You just don't get it. It does not matter what type of construction work you do. No job, including roofing, is worth risking your life. 

Common sense, as I see it, is *uncommon* on construction sites! Otherwise, construction workers would take more care to work safely. The sad fact is the majority of construction workers do not work safely. 

In fact, I was on a construction site yesterday. I found six things wrong with some stucco scaffolding that made the scaffolding unsafe to use. Instead of taking responsibility for the unsafe scaffolding, the foreman tried to give me excuses for why the scaffolding was unsafe. He had tagged the scaffolding safe to use when it was not. The scaffolding was taken out of service until the safety deficiencies were corrected.

It is this type of attitude that permeates the construction industry. That also includes roofers.


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## phalanx (Oct 29, 2010)

daviddeschaine said:


> Hello All,
> 
> Have you ever been hit with an OSHA Fine?


We have a client in central Florida that was hit with a $49,000 OSHA fine for not using fall protection on a roof in September.

We negotiatiated with OSHA to reduce the fine to $21,000. We are also training all the employees how to properly use fall protection equipment. That was the problem. The employees on the roof were wearing harnesses, but they were not secured to an anchorage. The OSHA inspector had photos of that.

A very expensive mistake by the contractor for not following OSHA regulations. Had we not negotiated the fine lower, the contractor might well have gone out of business.


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## phalanx (Oct 29, 2010)

RoofingSafety said:


> Thank you for getting involved in the discussion. Your experience puts a different perspective of the purpose of roofing safety regulations. It's not all about giving out fines - it's about preventing accidents like this.
> 
> Fall protection laws is like the law to wear your seat belt. Before it was a note to wear at your caution. When the law was first implemented, it was easy to forget to buckle up. Now it is second nature. Once you break the rules once and get away with it, it is easier to do it the next time and develop a habit. There are more pros to developing the positive habits.


That is correct. Developing positive habits means changing the safety culture within any given organization. The construction industry as a whole needs to change the way it approaches construction safety. The larger contractors are already there in terms of including safety during every phase of construction.

But the real need is among small contractors. OSHA does not have the resources to reach out to every small contractor to help them and probably never will. 

I know some small contractor owners who are totally committed to construction safety, but they are outnumbered by those who are not.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

phalanx said:


> You just don't get it. It does not matter what type of construction work you do. No job, including roofing, is worth risking your life.
> .


Ya I do get it,...you guys needed to get money somehow and ya found a way, and ya there is alot of idiots out there that make it tuff for everybody, but my question is " WHO put you guys in charge??", an individual should have there own responsiblity to be covered, not a bunch of pencil pushin guys coming onto a job site and telling the pros "How to do it"


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## phalanx (Oct 29, 2010)

Interloc said:


> Ya I do get it,...you guys needed to get money somehow and ya found a way, and ya there is alot of idiots out there that make it tuff for everybody, but my question is " WHO put you guys in charge??", an individual should have there own responsiblity to be covered, not a bunch of pencil pushin guys coming onto a job site and telling the pros "How to do it"


I don't have to defend my work as a construction safety consultant to you or anyone else. It speaks for itself.

Since you refer to "pros", here is part of the code of ethics that I strive to follow as a safety professional:

1. Hold paramount the safety and health of people, the protection of the environment and protection of property in the performance of professional duties and exercise their obligation to advise employers,clients,employees,
the public, and appropriate authorities of danger and unacceptable risks to people, the environment, or property.

2. Be honest, fair, and impartial; act with responsibility and integrity. Adhere to high standards of ethical conduct with balanced care for the interests of the public, employers, clients, employees, colleagues and the​profession. Avoid all conduct or practice that is likely to discredit the profession or deceive the public.


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## English Roofer (Dec 26, 2008)

But the real need is among small contractors. OSHA does not have the resources to reach out to every small contractor to help them and probably never will. 

I know some small contractor owners who are totally committed to construction safety, but they are outnumbered by those who are not.[/QUOTE]

The Thing is no roofer or contractor sets out at the start of the day to get him or his colleagues killed, with or with out health and safety measures there will be accidents, you can quote OSHA all you want but roofers will take risks, these are guys that have been up on the roofs 25yrs with out an accident and probably will never have one but as we know the longer you have been in the job the more complasent you will get, i get it from both sides of the fence, i have been a roofer for more than 25yrs and i take my health as number 1 but i do think you safety guys quoting that you know best can be a little over the top! its are arse were risking and are employies, we don't set out to harm them or us and the older i get the LESS risks i take.
In the UK for all roofing jobs you will need to supply scaffolding, its expensive but i know all other roofer quoting for the job will have to supply the same so its more or less a level playing field were quoting at, it seems in the states that its a lot more cut thoat than that, but believe me scaffold gets the job done safer and quicker having a safe working platform to work from is a must.
Regards
Dave


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## phalanx (Oct 29, 2010)

The Thing is no roofer or contractor sets out at the start of the day to get him or his colleagues killed, with or with out health and safety measures there will be accidents, you can quote OSHA all you want but roofers will take risks, these are guys that have been up on the roofs 25yrs with out an accident and probably will never have one but as we know the longer you have been in the job the more complasent you will get, i get it from both sides of the fence, i have been a roofer for more than 25yrs and i take my health as number 1 but i do think you safety guys quoting that you know best can be a little over the top! its are arse were risking and are employies, we don't set out to harm them or us and the older i get the LESS risks i take.
In the UK for all roofing jobs you will need to supply scaffolding, its expensive but i know all other roofer quoting for the job will have to supply the same so its more or less a level playing field were quoting at, it seems in the states that its a lot more cut thoat than that, but believe me scaffold gets the job done safer and quicker having a safe working platform to work from is a must.
Regards
Dave[/QUOTE]

All safety professionals consider OSHA standards as the *minimum *for health and safety. In fact, many OSHA standards are inadequate and many companies go beyond OSHA standards.

Using scaffolding instead of relying on fall protection equipment goes beyond the minimum to some extent and virtually guarantees safety from a fall to the ground. However, I want to point out that depending on the weight of the person, the pitch of the roof, and the distance a person falls, serious injury can still occur if that person strikes any part of the scaffolding during a fall. Gravity ensures that is going happen.

We all take risks every day. In the United States, a construction worker is more likely to be killed in an automobile accident on the way to a construction site than in a construction accident.

The point I have been trying to make is that one can reduce *unnecessary *risks during construction work. All it takes is a bit of prior planning, the proper equipment, the proper training, and a conscious effort to safely perform the task. 

To do anything less risks one's life uneccessarily. If someone wants to do that off the construction site, then go ahead. But no one is going to engage in that kind of unsafe activity on my clients' construction sites. They will not tolerate it because they are just as committed to safety as I am.

One of my masonry contractors fired nine employees earlier this week because they consistently failed to install guardrails on upper tiers of scaffolding on various work levels after numerous warnings. I wasn't there when this took place. The owner of the company fired the men.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

phalanx said:


> One of my masonry contractors fired nine employees earlier this week because they consistently failed to install guardrails on upper tiers of scaffolding on various work levels after numerous warnings. I wasn't there when this took place. The owner of the company fired the men.


 Are ya proud now?..get a job!


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## Mr. Roof Repair (Nov 6, 2010)

*All South Roofing- Building Trust One Roof at a Time*

Good day everyone! I’m a newbie member; feel free to visit this site. Any opinions are well appreciated! Thanks! 
http://www.allsouthroofing.com​


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## phalanx (Oct 29, 2010)

Interloc said:


> Are ya proud now?..get a job!


This is the last response I am going to make to your inane comments.

I didn't fire those employees, the owner did.
If one of them fell from the scaffold section that had no guardrails, then it is likely he would have been seriously injured or killed.
Disciplinary action is necessary to enforce safety rules, up to and including termination.
Go flame someone else.


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## phalanx (Oct 29, 2010)

Mr. Roof Repair said:


> Good day everyone! I’m a newbie member; feel free to visit this site. Any opinions are well appreciated! Thanks!
> 
> http://www.allsouthroofing.com​


Nice web site! Years ago I variously lived and worked in Atlanta, Decatur, Doraville, Chamblee and Canton. I married a girl from Canton.

Seeing that you are a member of NRCA, how do you incorporate their safety manual and safety training within your company?

I am working closely with a professional roofer who is a member of NRCA, but was not using their materials. He recently purchased their CD with all of the materials and we are starting to incorporate it into safety trainining and safety meetings.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

I didn't fire those employees, the owner did.-_your rules did_
If one of them fell from the scaffold section that had no guardrails, then it is likely he would have been seriously injured or killed.-_thats a big if_
Disciplinary action is necessary to enforce safety rules, up to and including termination.-_thats what a boss is for,..not you_
Go flame someone else.-_i'm still waiting to see why your in charge_


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## How'd that get there (Sep 22, 2010)

*Don't think it won't happen*

I first read this thread the day after a roofer in our state fell to his death.
It was a commercial roofing contractor who's father started the business. The man who fell has been roofing 35 years. He came up thru the ranks like a lot of us so even though he doesn't put on a tool belt every day he certainly can not be classified as a pencil pusher. He went to the job site to go over the scope of work with the crew. Once on the roof he had to tell one of his roofers to get a harness on. The roof did have some bad deck without knowledge of all the details..a section collapsed. He fell about 50' to his death. 
So it has nothing to do with being a professional roofer, or a pencil pusher.
Could you call it a freak accident? Maybe. I know this though the man who was told to put on his harness also fell thru. He dropped about 25' and lived with some minor injuries. That ought to be NUFF SAID but I'll bet some yahoo still thinks he can defy gravity and the odds


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

I'm sorry to hear about the fellow roofer, its nothing to do with defying gravity and the odds you have is as much as a chance of dieing just walking down the street or driving a car or swimming or mountain climbing or riding your bicycle, so for some yahoo to come along and tell me or anyone else that this is the way it is or get fined is BS, especially when there not even a roofer!


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## phalanx (Oct 29, 2010)

How'd that get there said:


> I first read this thread the day after a roofer in our state fell to his death.
> It was a commercial roofing contractor who's father started the business. The man who fell has been roofing 35 years. He came up thru the ranks like a lot of us so even though he doesn't put on a tool belt every day he certainly can not be classified as a pencil pusher. He went to the job site to go over the scope of work with the crew. Once on the roof he had to tell one of his roofers to get a harness on. The roof did have some bad deck without knowledge of all the details..a section collapsed. He fell about 50' to his death.
> So it has nothing to do with being a professional roofer, or a pencil pusher.
> Could you call it a freak accident? Maybe. I know this though the man who was told to put on his harness also fell thru. He dropped about 25' and lived with some minor injuries. That ought to be NUFF SAID but I'll bet some yahoo still thinks he can defy gravity and the odds


The vast majority of accidents are caused by human error. DuPont, the chemical company, was founded in the United States in 1802. They first started making gunpowder. When one of their plants blew up killing numerous employees, they got very serious about safety.

Today, DuPont is one of the safest companies to work for in the United States. I read a study they did over the years which concluded that over 97% of all of their accidents was caused by some type of human error. 

The DuPont safety program always takes human error into account and they have developed methods to reduce it considerably while recognizing that some human error will always exist. I know of one DuPont plant located in Kinston, N.C. that had gone over 10 years without a lost-time accident.

When I investigate accidents, the cause is almost always human error. That is why training employees to work safely is so important. That includes creating safety awareness among employees and providing the right type of safety equipment that reduces unnecessary risks.

None of the above will do any good if an employee thinks an accident isn't going to happen to him. Taking unnecessary risks eventually results in injury or death. That is why consistently using fall protection equipment on a roof is important.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

phalanx said:


> That is why consistently using fall protection equipment on a roof is important.


 :laughing:...you just wont get it till you actually try roofin for awhile :no:...
And another thing you safety guys should learn is "to each there own" who are you to decide for us??


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## angielily18 (Aug 24, 2010)

In every task in a construction site, the first priority of a worker is his safety. Of all the tasks given in these skilled jobs, roofing is the most dangerous part. The very first thing to remember while installing the roofing is to use safety harness and anchoring system.

Some roofing tips: roofing minneapolis


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## acc (Nov 17, 2009)

PS : "In every task in a construction site, the first priority of a worker is his safety."

Very well said Angielily 18 !!!


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

angielily18 said:


> , the first priority of a worker is his safety.


 As i've said, COMMON SENSE..


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## RooferJim (Oct 20, 2008)

I have all the saftey equipment. harness,hard hats,perimeter warning lines,jockstraps etc etc. It was all created by an industry to make money and another industry to fine you and make money. The folks who talk about harnesses have never worked a full day on a roof. Its a shame


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## Mr Roofer (Nov 17, 2009)

Why they are trying to get guys to wear safety harnesses instead of straight-jackets is beyond me. :thumbdown:


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## MGP Roofing (Mar 23, 2010)

I was witness to a accident that involved a worker falling 4.7m onto concrete while installing the plywood roof deck on a church building. He'd disconnected his safety line from one connection point to move it to the next. As he did so, a poorly fixed section of the roof frame gave way. Luckily, the plumbers had already piped out that part of the building, those pipes broke his fall.
This shows how its often multiple factors that combine to cause an accident. 
Lucky all he did was split his liver and break a couple of ribs & wreck his 
shoulder. Many don't survive a fall like this.

I ALWAYS use my safety harness if there's a risk of a fall like that, anywhere over 3 metres high that has no scaffold or when installing plywood roof deck above stairwells etc.

I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Worst moment of my life seeing this happen!


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## phalanx (Oct 29, 2010)

Recently, one construction worker who was riding a mobile scaffold, fell about 9 feet (2.7 meters) to the concrete floor. He was transported by fire/rescue to a nearby hospital where he was treated and released later that evening.

Nothing broken and no internal injuries. A very fortunate young man. The immediate cause of the accident was a violation of a basic safety rule when dealing with a mobile scaffold of this type. You never, ever ride on a mobile scaffold that is being manually pushed. Get off the scaffold, move the scaffold, lock the wheels, and get back on the scaffold and resume work.

This particular scaffold was three tiers high and the base to height ratio made it unstable. There were no outrigger supports attached to the scaffold legs for stability.

The employee who fell had violated a company safety rule by riding the scaffold as it was being moved. The crew had also failed to install outrigger supports which are required for this type of scaffold, despite the fact they had been trained to do so.

Common sense is uncommon on construction sites! When one ignores basic safety rules, then someone is likely to be seriously injured or killed.


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## Interloc (Apr 6, 2009)

I'll say it again...COMMON SENSE!!


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## Mr Roofer (Nov 17, 2009)

*diatribe :lol:*

The only problem with common sense is that it is being _lost_ through the process of evolution. Everything is taught and trained these days.

The biggest problem with fines levied is that it doesn't work. This might explain why I keep getting speeding tickets.

I think the biggest problem as it applies to roofing, is the lack of education. First off, the people signing up to roofing, aren't likely to have graduated anything. Reading can be a challenge for these folks. Wannabe cavemen tend to be like that. Second off, the small business owner (as it applies specifically to sloped roofing, which to my understanding represents the largest part of the market, not the large companies), is likely not going to be able to make it financially viable to educate or train his workers properly. Until we all become assimilated into large corporate culture, this will continue to be the case.

Ropes and harnesses are not an issue provided an individual starts off the first day wearing them, otherwise it's a major problem. Falling used to be a right of passage, and for anyone who has been born and bred through that, zero tolerance tends to fundamentally destroy them...thus the hostility. In such instances, safety stands for the destruction of their world. Unfortunately the flip side of that is the zero tolerance crowd is forced to turn a blind eye to all the grievances as a result. In those cases, the grievances far outweigh the benefits. I can't ignore that, I deal with all of the above everyday, although I can see the appeal in the ability to read someone the riot act, then walk away. Not that I begrudge the position, it seems to have been the best solution we could all come up with. I wonder how many roofers have actually tried to strangle safety officers with the rope...god knows I've heard enough of them talking about it. 

Again, I do not envy the safety position, so we are clear, I think the concept is fabulous, but when my guys tell me they would rather do something less criminal for an occupation it becomes a problem. I think personally my days on the roof are done, as I find it impossible to ungrain the ingrained. I have learned a ton from falls over the years, and it has made me a much stronger individual as a result, however I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. *conundrumitis*

The biggest problem I have seen on construction sites are all the damn doughnuts. Cholesterol kills people! Fine the doughnut makers! Fry those suckers in spinach! Surely, I jest.


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## RooferJim (Oct 20, 2008)

Its mostley all about the money. . The Saftey geeks never had there own industry twenty years ago. Contractors are part of the blame also because many of them like cheap unskilled labor or crews composed of illeagal aliens. Thats a serious issue.


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## Liberty Roofing (Oct 25, 2011)

One experience about roofing safety and cutting corners: My project manager ties off the safety rope to the hitch of his pickup when working on a steep pitch. Hope there isn't a 2nd set of keys for someone in a hurry to drive off! www.libertyroofingkc.com


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## 1985gt (Dec 21, 2010)

Liberty Roofing said:


> One experience about roofing safety and cutting corners: My project manager ties off the safety rope to the hitch of his pickup when working on a steep pitch. Hope there isn't a 2nd set of keys for someone in a hurry to drive off! www.libertyroofingkc.com


How in the hell does that work?


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## Acubis (Jan 10, 2011)

*Safety . Money and a level playing field*

There are many factors at play here with safe work practices;

Yes its true money does come into play, but the justification for the guidelines is real.

Many employees don't want to follow rules because they are lazy or it takes them longer, and they are not compensated for the additional time.

Many employers especially in the residential market find it difficult to comply when 95% of the local competition does not and therefore pays crews much less and has decreased cost getting from job to job. For some of them it becomes a matter of survival. Government wants them to do right thing and they want to but doing it and then allowing everyone to get away with non compliance is unfair.

On certain walk-able roofs the true professional roofers I have worked with believe extra OSHA fall protection guidelines create undue HAZARDS on the roof and slow production while causing accidents. Imagine a 5-6 man shingle crew having safety lines all over the roof.

There is no perfect answer some people who have never worn a harness will never fall and have the composure to ensure safety, others need it and may die without it. You can't be perfectly safe all the time but you can create a CULTURE of safety in your company.


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## Mattt74 (Dec 30, 2011)

To the safety guy, first people who never roofed should not even preach safety to roofers. Second, there should be a grandfather law on safety equipment. Meaning depending on when you entered the career. As someone who has roofed using jacks,boards and roof ladders just like all those before me. Who's career is probably over because of a safty rope. After two months of wearing one because safety people. If you really crunch the numbers yes fatalities numbers look up, but compared to roofs done there way down. Mostly because better products and equipment. The real problem was the cost of settlements. Safety harnesses cause injuries and fatalities. Next you'll want fishermen tied to the shore.


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## Roofermandan (Feb 10, 2015)

hello all, i know this is a heated topic but i believe that safety should not be overlooked i've been a sloped roofer for a dozen years and i have fallen a few times in these years sometimes hooked up and sometimes not but i can tell you i have learnd from my mistakes and know that i am mortal and believe me when i fell and was hooked up i was thanking my lucky stars now i think twice about ever working without a harness and it has become a steady practice 100% of the time. for those of you that say it slows me down and gets in the way you get used to after a while and dont even think about it in time you work as if there was nothing attached to you, trust me you will thank yourself if you do ever fall, think to yourself how your wife and kids would feel if you dont come home one day cause you were to thick headed to clip in.


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