# Eye in the Sky



## user182 (Jan 17, 2009)

Have any of you guys used that service that uses a satellite to estimate a roof? I think it’s called Eagleview.

How accurate is it?

Does it save you any time?

What are the benefits?


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

I wouldn't use it personally. Ok how many layers are there, can the eye in the sky tell me? How many pipes, white sizes? What condition is the decking? drip edge or not? What if something changed since the satellite photos were taken. Those images are often several years old. 

I have considered it for re-measuring, since we remeasure every job but decided against it. It might work for some people, I can't see it working for us.


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

I am testing out a free version, just to confirm my field measurements and to get a glance at the home before I go out to do the measure call.

Last nights example came up with 24 2/3rds squares. My field measurements were 24 1/3rd square.

But, by going there in person, I noted the 2 layers and missing gutter apron drip edge and rake edge drip edge and some loose aluminum fascia blown out from the wood fascia due to water and ice infiltration.

Now, if I had financing available, those home owners would have signed up last night, but the husband is seeking an advance from his employer on Monday and I may carry the final 1/3rd for 6 months, just to get the job signed.

Ed


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## ronbryanroofing (Mar 25, 2009)

Is it common to carry money like 6 months? If so do you tack on any office charges?
Oh yeah, any issues with the charges?


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## user182 (Jan 17, 2009)

I would still go up on the roof for an inspection and look in the attic.

I was thinking about trying to save time by making just one trip.

If I had the measurements I could do the estimate on my computer before leaving the office. Than after doing the onsite evaluation I could figure out prices for add-ons.


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

ronbryanroofing said:


> Is it common to carry money like 6 months? If so do you tack on any office charges?
> Oh yeah, any issues with the charges?


I drew up my own Installment Payment Agreement after doing quite a bit of Legal Research on all of the necessary terms and conditions that needed to be considered.

I try not to use it, but if that is what it takes, then it can seal a deal instantly.

I charge 2% per month as the finance charge and am considering adding a $450.00 automatic Mechanics Lien Fee added in for anyone getting carried beyond 90 days, with the Lien to be filed around the 60 day point, just to secure the debt.

There is also a universal escalation clause, whereas, if one payment is late, the entire sum becomes due instantly. If that clause were not in there, then one month late, then another month is late and I would have to file to enforce the terms of the installment agreement each and every month.

Ed


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## ronbryanroofing (Mar 25, 2009)

Thank you, more information than I expected. I am still in the small town mode so I am yet to cross that road. 
Going to need something for this website I am starting, the designer asked if I did financing or accepted credit cards. No call for it yet, but there is no telling if those guys that do offer are getting the calls and because I don't have it in any of my ads I may not even be getting the initial consideration.
Credit checks? Or do you get to size them up?


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

ronbryanroofing said:


> Thank you, more information than I expected. I am still in the small town mode so I am yet to cross that road.
> Going to need something for this website I am starting, the designer asked if I did financing or accepted credit cards. No call for it yet, but there is no telling if those guys that do offer are getting the calls and because I don't have it in any of my ads I may not even be getting the initial consideration.
> 
> 
> *Credit checks? Or do you get to size them up?*


Most of the time this comes into play, is when the job Extra Change Orders are all completed, especially when there is a substantial amount of plywood decking that needed to be replaced.

I usually have a side bar optioned price based on the total square footage used, listed in the contract, but the original contract amount does not include that possibility, so the ending invoice could be very substantialy over the originally budgeted amount.

At that point, where would a credit check come in and help?

You already have the job for a certain amount of money and now you have the roof ripped open and sheathing needs to be replaced.

I just go by my gut Feelings at that point, but they have already signed the Update To Specifications Change Order form, so they are now liable for coming up with the funds.

Since they may not have them readily available, then make it worth your while to spread out the payments.

Ed


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## user182 (Jan 17, 2009)

*Eagleview*

The report that I received from Eagleview was very accurate.

It was for a roof that I had recently completed so I knew how many shingles I used on the project.

They gave me a Premium report as a free sample. It included the square footage for each side. 

The home was a 2 story hip roof with about 25 sides. The total square footage that they came up was exactly what I used to do the job. I took the valley measurements and multiplied it by 3 for waste. When I added that to the square footage that they gave me it came out to exactly what I used 46.66 squares.

I am impressed by the accuracy of the information that they provided.


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## [email protected] (Mar 30, 2009)

Thanks for the feedback Jack, glad you liked it. Let me know if you have any other questions.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Yeah Will I have some questions. See my post above, but for your convenience I will copy and paste below... 


Ok how many layers are there, can the eye in the sky tell me? How many pipes, white sizes? What condition is the decking? drip edge or not? What if something changed since the satellite photos were taken. Those images are often several years old.


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

I thought of a few more. How wide is the overhang? How were the gutters fastened. What about if they planted some bushes trees or shrubs that hinder my access to the property since the photo was taken?


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## user182 (Jan 17, 2009)

Grumpy said:


> Yeah Will I have some questions. See my post above, but for your convenience I will copy and paste below...
> 
> 
> Ok how many layers are there, can the eye in the sky tell me? How many pipes, white sizes? What condition is the decking? drip edge or not? What if something changed since the satellite photos were taken. Those images are often several years old.


You would still have to do an onsite evaluation to gather all the information that you need to make professional recommendations.

I don’t see how this service can help you unless the value of time that you save by having the measurements provided for you out weighs the cost.


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

I do like the concept and feel it will be the way that all of the younger contractors wind up estimating, but it is ONLY A TOOL.

The thing I like most about it, is the professional nearly CAD-Like drawn measurements.

The prices are getting resonable, so accept it when you can afford to use one of the vendors.

How would you like to be able to canvass a neighborhood and already have the homes diagram and measurements available if they were only 1-2 dollars per report?

Would you use them then?

Ed


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Jack The Roofer said:


> You would still have to do an onsite evaluation to gather all the information that you need to make professional recommendations.
> 
> I don’t see how this service can help you unless the value of time that you save by having the measurements provided for you out weighs the cost.


So what's the point to this then if I still have to to an onsite evaluation? I mean it only takes what 15 minutes to measure, and another 10 to figure the math? 

See my point?


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Ed the Roofer said:


> How would you like to be able to canvass a neighborhood and already have the homes diagram and measurements available if they were only 1-2 dollars per report?
> 
> Would you use them then?
> 
> Ed


Ed if it were 1-2 dollars per report, I would buy whole neighborhoods and send out a mass mailing campaign. The original estimate would but just that, an estimate only, and subject to field verification. Now yer talkin'!


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

The Five Dollar reports will soon be available, but in large quantities and with you doing the measurements.

I saw different people who have outsourced the technology from India, that had systems like the well known one, reverse engineered for their own needs.

Two of the companies that I know of right now, are in litigation against some of the competitors listed, due to patent and trademark infringement issues.

We should hire an outsource for our own companies and only use it for ourselves.

Then, we could pre-measure entire neighborhoods, especially, the neighbors of a current job.

Ed


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## user182 (Jan 17, 2009)

Grumpy said:


> So what's the point to this then if I still have to to an onsite evaluation? I mean it only takes what 15 minutes to measure, and another 10 to figure the math?
> 
> See my point?


If you valued your time at $2 per minute you would break even if the report was $50.

I guess I would have to experiment to see what difference it would make to have the measurements before hand.

I could use the measurements to start a rough estimate prior to doing the onsite evaluation. Maybe I could ask the prospect if they have a budget for the project to see if it’s close to my estimate that I have done before visiting the site.

If they are thinking $6000 and I know it’s closer to $10,000 then it would be a good idea to let them get quotes from someone else first. I don’t like being the first one in anyway. It’s much harder to close the deal if you are first in, especially when the price is thousands of dollars higher than what they are expecting.


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## user182 (Jan 17, 2009)

Grumpy said:


> Ed if it were 1-2 dollars per report, I would buy whole neighborhoods and send out a mass mailing campaign. The original estimate would but just that, an estimate only, and subject to field verification. Now yer talkin'!


Now yer talking about making a commodity out of yourself, Are you prepared to be the low bidder?


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## Grumpy (Oct 29, 2008)

Jack The Roofer said:


> If you valued your time at $2 per minute you would break even if the report was $50.
> 
> I guess I would have to experiment to see what difference it would make to have the measurements before hand.
> 
> ...


That there is what we call funny numbers. And for time spent, I am still getting a better return on investment doing it the old fashioned way. Too many unanswered questions. 

It's always nice to measure twice and cut once. But that's why I send out the production manager or crew foreman to do a remeasure when the job has been sold. However this can count as your measuring twice. 



Yes I am prepared to be the low bidder initially... just to get my foot in the door. What I mean is if I did buy some bulk arial measurments at $2 a piece, then apply the laws of averages and give a low cost per square with the caveat that it is an estimte only and subject to field verifications. This may entice the customer to contact me. At that time I could perform the REAL estimate based on real world values like layers and flashings, bushes etc... 

It definetly would be an experiment worth trying. It's the same thing the window companies do advertising $100 per window then talking the customer into paying $700 per window. Called a "loss leader". 


However I don't see any reason why the estimate would need to be low. Think about it for a second...

Why not give a real HIGH estimate as your initial offering then when you get to the house you know you have a qualified buyer... maybe even shave off a couple bucks because the first esimtate was just an estimate. Perhaps assume all jobs are 3 layers, then you are a hero when you are onlyc harging the customer for 2 layers, because they only have 2 layers, not 3... On the flip side, if they have 4 obviously charge them for the 4th, though that'd be rare (in a suburb, 4 layers are common in the city). 

Sure your response rate with a higher estimate would be much lower than with a lowe estimate, but the buyer would be a very well qualified buyer... and if it's done on a MASS scale it could definetly be made to work. Like I said it's an experiment definetly worth trying when these aerial measurements get more realistic. Maybe a year or two more.

Try it both ways in two similiar yet different neighborhods and see what happens. I'm actually getting excited about the idea now.


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## buildpinnacle (Apr 18, 2009)

I don't see the need. Xactimate sketch puts a very professional roof drawing together based on field measurements, so that aspect of it doesn't appeal to me. Although I am a fan of technology, my concern is that roofers will start estimating site unseen and mailing bids off of requests from their website. This is against everything I believe in and all the principals of our business. If you are going to do a site visit anyway, you are wasting your money IMHO. I see young and upcoming roofing professionals not learning how to properly scope and measure a replacment because they don't have to. This will hurt our industry and drag our reputation as roofers down even further. The same thing happened with all the advancement in single ply membranes. The old school hot roofers retired and the new guys never learned the systems properly because they would rather stay clean and heat weld a TPO roof than sling 500 degree tar all day because it's easier. There's just something about it that I rubs me wrong. I have a bad feeling it's going to create a ton of misleading or bad situations due to not doing proper inspections and our clients overall will be the ones that pay. This will further accelerate the bad reputation we as roofers work so hard to overcome. 

Most importantly don't forget the value of personal contact. Clients like to see us up there on our hands and knees looking at details that failed because they know we are going to make them right. If you show up and measure the eaves from the ground or count tabs, go to your truck and write an estimate, you would never get my work.


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## user182 (Jan 17, 2009)

I don't see the need for it either; it isn’t going to enable me to switch over to a one visit sales process.

I’m not going to resort to bidding on a job site unseen.


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## user182 (Jan 17, 2009)

I checked out another measuring service and some of the measurements were off. 

I don't see how anyone that is conscientious about there work could use this information to produce a proposal.


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## Ed the Roofer (Sep 15, 2008)

Jack The Roofer said:


> I checked out another measuring service and some of the measurements were off.
> 
> I don't see how anyone that is conscientious about there work could use this information to produce a proposal.


Which one?

The One Time sample report I got from EagleView wound up being the wrong house and they didn't respond back to me when I pointed it out initially.

It was only when I made a follow up contact with them, that the owner told me that they have "fixed the problem" and it wouldn't happen again.

I still know that this Will become part of the industry and you better get used to it, because the new guys using the higher technology will find a way to make it work for them.

Instead of pointing out what will Not work for you by utilizing this type of measuring software, you should rather be looking at when and how it could assist you.

Ed


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## user182 (Jan 17, 2009)

Ed the Roofer said:


> Which one?


It was a sample report from Precigeo. Some of the measurement were off by 2-3 feet and the pitch was 8 not 7.



> I still know that this Will become part of the industry and you better get used to it, because the new guys using the higher technology will find a way to make it work for them.
> 
> Instead of pointing out what will Not work for you by utilizing this type of measuring software, you should rather be looking at when and how it could assist you.
> 
> Ed


I already know how it will assist me. It will essentially be a weakness for my competitors and I will use that weakness against them to outsell them every time.

Read that book I recommended to you about General George S. Patton. You’ll find the story about an incident when some of his underlings were hesitant to move forward.

They wanted to study maps and wasted a lot of time trying to figure out the best place to cross a river.

The river was not to far away so Patton just walked down there and inspected it in person. He discovered that the river would not be difficult to cross as they had supposed and the troops moved forward.

You do bring up a good point though. Patton also was an innovator and exploiter of new technologies. He even helped with some of the tank designs. You have to know when technology will help you and when it is more of a distraction.

I don’t believe true salesmanship will ever die. In fact the more my competitors rely on computerized technology the easier it will be for me to outsell them.

Why? you ask. Because true selling takes place face to face and eyeball to eyeball. Everyone dislikes rejection so the try to avoid a selling situation that puts them in front of a prospect that might say “no”. I’m not going to let that stop me.


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## flatrooferstl (Dec 18, 2008)

Maybe for like Grumpy said earlier to remeasure, but This would take away from meeting with Homeowner,Property Owner, etc which should always be an advantage usually to actually meet the owner or the in charge !


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## user182 (Jan 17, 2009)

*Useful purpose*

I think I found a useful purpose for this service.

It will help me to estimate complex hip roofs that are steep.

I just used it for a 45 square hip roof with an 11:12 pitch.

I got on the roof wearing my Cougar Paw boots and started getting some of the measurements but it was too difficult. 

I ordered an basic report from Eagleview for $35, with that type of report you input the pitch yourself and then get the measurements. 

Based on the accuracy of the free report that they gave me I think it is worth the money to get this information.


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